OpenTrackRacer

I'm flying from LA to Auckland next week on QF26 using AA miles. There are three of us but I was only able to grab one business class seat. If I check available seats on the flight there are business class seats open but they're not released for frequent flyer redemption (or at least AA can't grab them).

Does anyone know if and when these will be released for frequent flyers? If I understand the way OneWorld works I won't be able to use my AA miles to upgrade at check-in so I want to try and grab them beforehand. I have a similar situation on our return flight as well.

Thanks!

Dave Noble

There is not guarantee that they will release any more. The best you can do is just keep checking and seeing whether some become free. If you have access to Expert Flyer, set up an alert to let you know should it become available

Being the last few days of advent I wouldnt be too hopeful of it becoming available

Dave

millionmiler

QF is notorious about not releasing unused seats to award inventory on its transpacific routes. There can be a dozen empty seats in J at departure with no additional FF seats. I have personally seen this on multiple occasions.

number_6

I flew QF25/26 about 3 months ago, and J had at most 10 people in each direction (1 per row of 6) ... so lots of empty seats. Y was completely full so there may have been some upgrades. I didn't check but I bet 0 seats were released for award redemption (that is QF policy, they do not release seats for awards as a matter of course; QFF WP status, which is EXP equiv., does have the perk of being able to request seats to be released but that doesn't apply to QFF Gold much less AA Plat which is lower status). Sometimes you really need FF status to make awards suit your schedule. Given that your flight is within 7 days, I would say awards would have already been released, so the indication is that QF is not targeting that flight/date for additional awards.

OpenTrackRacer

Well, that's a bummer. Kind of annoying that they'd leave the seats empty rather than allowing QFF or One World members to use up miles. I guess that's not unusual however. I figured my OW Sapphire wouldn't be worth much.

I guess the only thing I can do is try at check in with my wife and well behaved and cute daughter in tow. The Qantas phone rep added a note to the booking requesting upgrades but I don't think that's worth the electrons it was sent on. I suppose there is also no reason not to try with the cabin crew as well if I see that seats are open in business class.

Thanks for the feedback!

Kiwi Flyer

Welcome to FT OpenTrackRacer

On this particular flight QFF tends to release premium cabin awards almost exclusively for LAX-MEL (via AKL) not LAX-AKL. Very annoying for those who actually want to go to AKL (not to mention more costly for QFF redemptions). The reason is to reduce the number of premium cabin awards offered on LAX-MEL nonstop.

It was a miracle you got one business award seat. Getting any more would take more miracles.

Lonely Flyer

So would I be correct in assuming the "bean counters" at QF think carrying an empty seat is cheaper than reducing their liability in the massive bank of points held by their FF members.

thadocta

No, the "bean counters" are working on the assumption that if they release award seats at the last minute they will be snapped up by those who HAVE to travel, who then won't part with hard earnt dollars (or Euros, or Pounds, or sheckles) for the seats.

Dave

OpenTrackRacer

I was thinking the same thing Lonely Flyer!

Thanks for the additional insight Kiwi Flyer. I didn't realize that the flight continued on to Melbourne. I just checked and there are seats shown as available in both classes. There's no way to know if they're overbooking that I'm aware of. We actually got one business class seat on QF26 and two on QF25 coming back in January.

Anyone think I have a chance of getting my family up to the front if there are open seats? I suppose there will be a better chance coming back when we only need one seat and my eight year old daughter can give the look while my wife asks if daddy can sit with the rest of the family.

Globaliser

Probably, and they may well be right.

The industry's funny in the way how you can sometimes be more profitable by deliberately flying empty seats.

number_6

There was a PBS TV special a few years ago about AA that disected a single AA flight, showing all the fares and pax. It was something like DFW-BOS and all of the profit was from 3 pax on that flight -- the 3 highest coach fares (ironically none of them were in F). The other 120 pax on that flight covered the cost of operating the flight. The most expensive fare was over 10 times the cheapest fare (I think that is no longer true today, fare structure has changed substantially since then). And that was during a boom year.

So QF holding out for 1 more full J fare sale is not so unreasonable as a yield strategy. And yes, supplying last minute awards definitely undermines the full fare sales

lokijuh

Agreed.

There's been a lot of discussion on this forum about this issue (and on the SQ forum as well) over the years, and QF's (and SQ's) relatively miserly attitude to upgrades and J class awards. Not sure how to search specifically for the discussions, but the essence of them are that once you start giving away FF seats and upgrades willy nilly, those who would normally pay to fly in J will pay to fly in Y and expect their upgrade/FF seat as a right. And there goes valuable profit.

Globaliser

Yes - the example I once cobbled together was the scenario of an airline with 6 seats left to sell on a flight. The market consists of 2 backpackers, who are each prepared to pay $100 each; 2 better-off leisure travellers who would prefer to pay $100 but are in fact prepared to pay $150 each; and 2 business pax who have to get where they're going and whose companies would love to pay only $100 but are actually prepared to pay $500 each to make sure that these pax get there.

If the airline prices all 6 seats at $100, it sells them all and gets $600.

If the airline prices all 6 seats at $500, it sells only two, and deliberately flies four empty. But it gets $1000 and saves the marginal costs of four pax.

The industry's funny that way.

eoinnz

You probably have a better chance of winning the lotto than being upgraded

OpenTrackRacer

Yeow! Qantas is that bad eh? Regardless, I have nothing to lose by asking. Can anyone suggest the best time to ask? Right after the doors close? After the safety briefing but before takeoff? Once we're in the air?

Thanks!