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Radical devaluation: can't sit in biz anymore on SQ Asian connections on biz award
I'm having a huge nightmare with an upcoming Star Alliance business class award reservation. But this monumental rules change warrants its own separate thread . . .
According to two UA agents with whom I spoke, UA has now modified the rules for SQ business class award redemptions. The old rule used to permit a traveler claiming a business class award to sit in business class on all three cabin SQ flights and in business class on two cabin SQ flights only if they were on the nonstop flights between LAX/EWR and SIN (either direction). Now, UA apparently only allows passengers redeeming Star Alliance business class awards to sit in economy on SQ-operated connecting flights in Asia. In other words, the two cabin/three cabin distinction has been eliminated and only those claiming first class awards will ever sit in a premium cabin on a SQ-operated connecting flight in Asia. The new rule as read to me states (not verbatim, but recorded to the best of my ability): X/I/O class not offered on all routes Apparently this rule change was made within the last two weeks.For SQ business class awards with stopovers/connections to or from transatlantic/transpacific flights, book I across the Atlantic/Pacific and X for onward connecting flights operated by SQ. This is a huge blow to pasengers like myself redeeming South Asia Star Alliance business class awards. Why should we not sit in business class on a business class award when the aircraft is a three cabin aircraft? And the apparent loophole makes no sense; ostensibly, you can circumvent the rule and sit in business on SQ-operated intra-Asian flights provided that you fly a carrier other than SQ across the pond. :td: :td: :td: :td: :td: Anybody else encountered this new rule? |
I HOPE this is not true! Terrible if so! :td:
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I can't believe this is true.
This is not just a devaluation, this is a radical change in the T&C's of the MP program with absolutely zero prior notice. :td: |
I wonder how this rule would apply to one of the through flights like SFO-ICN-SIN or SFO-HKG-SIN? Would you literally be sitting in C one segment only to get back onto the same plane in Y?
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Originally Posted by SFOtoORD
I wonder how this rule would apply to one of the through flights like SFO-ICN-SIN or SFO-HKG-SIN? Would you literally be sitting in C one segment only to get back onto the same plane in Y?
How long till this devaluation makes its way into the rules though? |
Out of shear curiosity I am calling the 1K Rez to ask, and the agent did not know about it. I ask her to check on it, and I have been on hold for five minutes. Let's see what she says...
It's true. That really, really pi$$es me off! All these little "devaluations" are really starting to get to me. |
Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer
I'm having a huge nightmare with an upcoming Star Alliance business class award reservation. But this monumental rules change warrants its own separate thread . . .
According to two UA agents with whom I spoke, UA has now modified the rules for SQ business class award redemptions. The old rule used to permit a traveler claiming a business class award to sit in business class on all three cabin SQ flights and in business class on two cabin SQ flights only if they were on the nonstop flights between LAX/EWR and SIN (either direction). Now, UA apparently only allows passengers redeeming Star Alliance business class awards to sit in economy on SQ-operated connecting flights in Asia. In other words, the two cabin/three cabin distinction has been eliminated and only those claiming first class awards will ever sit in a premium cabin on a SQ-operated connecting flight in Asia. The new rule as read to me and states (not verbatim, but recorded to the best of my ability): X/I/O class not offered on all routes Apparently this rule change was made within the last two weeks.For SQ business class awards with stopovers/connections to or from transatlantic/transpacific flights, book I across the Atlantic/Pacific and X for onward connecting flights operated by SQ. This is a huge blow to pasengers like myself redeeming South Asia Star Alliance business class awards. Why should we not sit in business class on a business class award when the aircraft is a three cabin aircraft? And the apparent loophole makes no sense; ostensibly, you can circumvent the rule and sit in business on SQ-operated intra-Asian flights provided that you fly a carrier other than SQ across the pond. :td: :td: :td: :td: :td: Anybody else encountered this new rule? |
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Originally Posted by SFOtoORD
I wonder how this rule would apply to one of the through flights like SFO-ICN-SIN or SFO-HKG-SIN? Would you literally be sitting in C one segment only to get back onto the same plane in Y?
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Are you sure that you just didn't get any of the few misinformed UA agents that seems to be around there?
If something like this would arise when I am making a booking I would ask a copy of the appropriate profile. |
Originally Posted by holtju2
Are you sure that you just didn't get any of the few misinformed UA agents that seems to be around there?
If something like this would arise when I am making a booking I would ask a copy of the appropriate profile. |
Originally Posted by holtju2
If something like this would arise when I am making a booking I would ask a copy of the appropriate profile.
However if anybody has access or can gain access to this profile, I think we'd all be well served by a verbatim recitation here. Perhaps for the first time ever, I would be absolutely ecstatic to be wrong! ;) |
Originally Posted by lucky9876coins
I called independent of the OP, and got the agent who also read the rules to me.
So if you book C you get Y but if you book F you get F or do they downgrade the F segment(s) to C on connecting flights? This "profile" refers to SQ business awards but how about *A mixed awards. If you want to fly FRA-SIN on SQ C you must fly other carrier than SQ from US to FRA i.e. Lufthansa. UA doesn’t make it any easier than before to redeem *A awards but that is the purpose of these rules enhancements I guess. |
Originally Posted by kb1992
:td: :td: :td: :td: :td: :td:
What about NH C awards ORD-NRT-PVG? Do I sit in Y on the NRT-PVG leg? :confused: |
Originally Posted by kb1992
:td: :td: :td: :td: :td: :td:
What about NH C awards ORD-NRT-PVG? Do I sit in Y on the NRT-PVG leg? :confused: |
does this also affect NH?
Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer
I had two different agents and a supervisor read me the information in the first post so I must assume that it is accurate.
However if anybody has access or can gain access to this profile, I think we'd all be well served by a verbatim recitation here. Perhaps for the first time ever, I would be absolutely ecstatic to be wrong! ;) :td: :td: :td: :td: :td: :td: What about NH C awards ORD-NRT-PVG? Do I sit in Y on the NRT-PVG leg? :confused: |
Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
No effect upon NH awards - NH keeps it rather simple - you get the cabin you redeem for if it's available.
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Originally Posted by attention deficit
Sorry... not true. Just spoke to 4 different agents and they all confirmed that the rule only applies if it is on a 2-cabin aircraft.
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Originally Posted by attention deficit
Sorry... not true. Just spoke to 4 different agents and they all confirmed that the rule only applies if it is on a 2-cabin aircraft.
Mine said it was not true as well until she went to check it out. |
Originally Posted by lucky9876coins
I called independent of the OP, and got the agent who also read the rules to me.
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Originally Posted by attention deficit
Sorry... not true. Just spoke to 4 different agents and they all confirmed that the rule only applies if it is on a 2-cabin aircraft.
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Originally Posted by attention deficit
Sorry... not true. Just spoke to 4 different agents and they all confirmed that the rule only applies if it is on a 2-cabin aircraft.
How the heck are we getting so many radically different explanations from UA? I can understand the confusion arising from the two cabin/three cabin distinction, but I had two agents read the alleged new rule to me verbatim. :confused: Can somebody with access -- a UA insider, travel agent, or whomever -- please post the applicable rule currently in effect? |
Originally Posted by lucky9876coins
Did you ask them to go and check the rule, as opposed to going off of their basic knowledge?
Mine said it was not true as well until she went to check it out. |
This is REAL!
The aforementioned beyond-longhaul-in-Coach rule applies to BOTH 2 AND 3 cabin aircraft - previously, it was interpreted to apply only to 2-cabin aircraft, and this interpretation was incorrect. There isn't a profile code entry - the CSR said he looked in "FLASH" to see this. Hope this helps. |
Originally Posted by holtju2
It would be best for all of us if we could have a direct access to those UA * profiles so that we could "train" the CSR when making bookings and not to cause havoc here on FT.
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Originally Posted by attention deficit
Sorry... not true. Just spoke to 4 different agents and they all confirmed that the rule only applies if it is on a 2-cabin aircraft.
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Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer
Can somebody with access -- a UA insider, travel agent, or whomever -- please post the applicable rule currently in effect? Paging UnitedSkies ......................................... |
Originally Posted by qasr
If that is the case, then this is better than the old rule, since you get I transpac then?
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Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
The agent I spoke to looked at the Flash entry, and found the new rule. If an agent does not check Flash, they won't see it, as it's not yet in the profile text proper, from what I've gathered.
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Originally Posted by kb1992
Paging UnitedSkies .........................................
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Originally Posted by holtju2
I believe that it is not really up to SQ but rather UA to be cheapskate on these. They just don't want UA FF to redeem miles on partners.
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Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
The agent I spoke to looked at the Flash entry, and found the new rule. If an agent does not check Flash, they won't see it, as it's not yet in the profile text proper, from what I've gathered.
He is checking right now... on the Flash thing. But he needs a flash number. So he is searching... |
Originally Posted by attention deficit
I'm speaking to an agent now who is a member of Flyertalk!!!!
He is checking right now... on the Flash thing. But he needs a flash number. So he is searching... Tell us what happens! |
Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer
Can somebody with access -- a UA insider, travel agent, or whomever -- please post the applicable rule currently in effect?
From the new and "improved" rules under S*MPI/STAR-AWARD RULES.R: **NOTE: X/I/O IS NOT OFFERED ON ALL ROUTES. FOR SQ BUSINESS CLASS AWARDS WITH CONNECTIONS/STOPOVERS TO/FROM A TRANSOCEANIC FLIGHT BOOK *I* CLASS FOR TRANSOCEANIC FLIGHT ACROSS THE ATLANTIC/PACIFIC AND *X* FOR ONWARD FLT EXAMPLE - SQ BUSINESS CLASS AWARD LAXDPS BOOK *I* LAX-SIN AND *X* SIN-DPS SQ AWARDS THAT DO NOT INVOLVE A TRANSOCEANIC SECTOR USE *I* FOR ALL SECTORS INCLUDING 2 CABIN AIRCRAFT |
Upon sober reflection:
Well, it's a positive that all 2-cabin flights (except those connecting to/from a longhaul) are now again bookable in I (if the posted text is the complete text of the rule). Given that it's often possible to either swing via BKK or else take on oddball Star flight to most South Asian/Central Asian cities and remain within MPM, the new SQ rule is only moderately more annoying than the old one. |
Originally Posted by sftrvlr
**NOTE: X/I/O IS NOT OFFERED ON ALL ROUTES.
FOR SQ BUSINESS CLASS AWARDS WITH CONNECTIONS/STOPOVERS TO/FROM A TRANSOCEANIC FLIGHT BOOK *I* CLASS FOR TRANSOCEANIC FLIGHT ACROSS THE ATLANTIC/PACIFIC AND *X* FOR ONWARD FLT EXAMPLE - SQ BUSINESS CLASS AWARD LAXDPS BOOK *I* LAX-SIN AND *X* SIN-DPS SQ AWARDS THAT DO NOT INVOLVE A TRANSOCEANIC SECTOR USE *I* FOR ALL SECTORS INCLUDING 2 CABIN AIRCRAFT |
But if you pay for F you still get the O bucket on the onwards connection?
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Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer
How exactly does UA define "SQ BUSINESS CLASS AWARDS"? What if the transoceanic flight is SQ-operated, buy the connection is operated by a different Star Alliance carrier than SQ? Coach on the non-SQ connection as well? Or does the rule only apply to SQ/SQ connections?
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Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
Upon sober reflection:
Well, it's a positive that all 2-cabin flights (except those connecting to/from a longhaul) are now again bookable in I (if the posted text is the complete text of the rule). Given that it's often possible to either swing via BKK or else take on oddball Star flight to most South Asian/Central Asian cities and remain within MPM, the new SQ rule is only moderately more annoying than the old one. What is the possible justification for forcing somebody who cashes in the mileage for a business class award to sit in coach, especially when the SQ connection offers both a business class and a first class cabin? :confused: This puts a significant damper on using SIN as a connection point on award travel. And it is basically sounds the death knell for business class redemptions to CMB (TG has a non-daily nonstop which, from anecdotal experience, never shows up in UA's award booking system). :td: But perhaps the worst aspect of the change is the complete and utter lack of notice. At least the unwelcome October award redemption changes were flagged in advance. Here, UA has cold-cocked its customers and yanked the rug out from underneath 'em without so much as a peep. :mad: |
Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer
How exactly does UA define "SQ BUSINESS CLASS AWARDS"? What if the transoceanic flight is SQ-operated, buy the connection is operated by a different Star Alliance carrier than SQ? Coach on the non-SQ connection as well? Or does the rule only apply to SQ/SQ connections?
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