bowdenj

Okay well I officially barely missed this FREEZE.

I was just approaching the area for ATL security at 714p 09/26/09 and then I heard the freeze.

Unfortunately I wasn't even up to the zig-zag rope lines so I could truly experience a freeze.

When I got to the zig-zag pre-ID check line the freeze was still in effect and I was blocked from ignoring the freeze by freeziers (frozens? freezists?).

The ID check TSA lady was talking to another ID check TSA lady and asking if she ever tells the people in the zig-zag pre-ID check line to freeze.

I told her that freeze is such bulls--- and she and the ATL PD had a startled look and then started laughing.

My first almost freeze experience!

Trollkiller

So if they holler freeze for no valid reason would that not be an unreasonable seizure?

PTravel

Considering that TSOs have no right to detain, whether for a valid reason or an invalid one, it would still be unconstitutional if they attempted to enforce it. As someone said earlier in this thread, if a LEO approaches and says, "Why didn't you freeze when the TSO said to?", the correct response is, "They have no authority to detain anyone so I paid no attention. Am I free to go, officer?"

IrishDoesntFlyNow

I don't know whether I could manage to give the correct response. I'm not entirely sure I could control my hysterical laughter long enough to speak coherent sentences.

Good Guy

To which I would reply, "Have a nice day."

PTravel

Rule number 1: Never p!ss off a cop.
Rule number 2: Laughing at a cop will p!ss him/her off.

I respect LEOs -- they have a dangerous job and perform a necessary function. I'd explain to a LEO politely why I don't listen to TSOs. I'm sure he or she would agree with me. Then we could BOTH have a good laugh, and I'll on my way.

IrishDoesntFlyNow

Oh, don't get me wrong -- I love cops; they've covered my back on more than one occasion. I'd already be in the throes of hysteria by the time the LEO got there.

wildcatlh

Or he'd taze you, tackle you to the ground and arrest you, whether or not he had any justification to do so. You would probably suffer some minor (if you're lucky) injuries. After you took a trip downtown, charges would eventually be dropped. You would file a complaint with the internal affairs department. The cop would get a week or two paid vacation. The IAD "report" would come out 6 months later absolving the cop of any responsibility.

(bet my eventuality is more likely than yours)

(Too many cops nowadays are power drunk and ignore the constitution to the point that they make TSOs look like paragons of virtue)

(but I'll stop now to avoid this being moved to OMNI)

Good Guy

Care to back that up with some facts, or are you just talking out your a$$?

Trollkiller

Assuming that one cop on a power trip is too many, the statement is easy to prove.

Most stories of a cops violating rights include an account of violence where most stories of TSOs violating rights do not. Add in the fact that most TSOs violations of rights do not include a free ride to the pokey, the second part of the statement is easily proven too.

lobster7

I'd say the "facts" are in the news on a daily basis across this country. We are living in an ever increasing Police State where the rights of the people seem to not matter to the thugs in blue. There are still some good cops out there, but the vast majority are nothing but arrogant, abusive, power tripping, us vs them attitude jack booted thugs. People shouldn't be afraid of cops, but they are.

Officers play Wii bowling during drug bust

Beating on tape

Police Taser Elderly Man on Antique Tractor in Parade

“We’re not on the same level. I’m up here, you’re down here.

"Drug Task Force" killing -- minister in Georgia.

Fire chief shot by cop in court over tickets

Cincinnati officer suspended for Taser use


Woman left homeless after SWAT

Strike Force was rife with misconduct

Pregnant mother tasered at baptism party

Off-Duty Cop Pulls Gun On Club Bouncer

Florida Sheriff's Deputy Charged for Preying on Illegals

Boise ombudsman says police officer used excessive force in an arrest this year

ATF agent expected to say that investigators got wiretaps illegally

Store video catches cop bullying woman


McMenacing? Cop Accused Of Pulling Gun At McD's



Family Outraged After Officer Shoots Their Dog

Again a woman alleges indecent assault by same cop during a narcotics raidl

Trooper attacks paramedic

BART Police Shoot unarmed handcuffed man in the back

Chicago LEO convicted: Assault on female bartender

Cop Puts Innocent Man In Coma - Called Tragic Accident?

Girl arrested for swearing on 911 call



Texas cops shaking down motorists...


Or if you wish, we can get into the constant harassment of photographers by the thugs in blue-

http://carlosmiller.com/

Makes for a good couple hours of reading to see how our "rights" are being trampled on on a daily basis.

Good Guy

Well, good job. You were able to google 24 incidences. I'm sure you could probably come up with some more, but to say that the "vast majority" of the 800,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the US are "arrogant, abusive, power tripping, us vs them attitude jack booted thugs" is reaching just a tad. And TK, to say that just one in too many...well, brother, I want to live in your world.

mgilmer

As an attorney of over 25 years, I could provide you with literally 100s of examples of blue misconduct just in my little corner of the world. I have to ask, are you LEO or related to one? That would certainly explain your attitude.

lobster7

Actually, I could list about 200 more from just this past year.....

I'll also stick to my "vast majority" comment. I've worked public safety for the last 10 years or so and have dealt with cops, deputies, state troopers, etc from many different jurisdictions. I have met only a few that didn't have an "us vs them" attitude and seem anywhere from having a small amount of arrogance to a huge amount. I'm sick of hearing about that they have a dangerous job, and everything they do is about "officer safety". They choose the career they are in which is to serve the public, not intimidate and harass. One can see the current mentality by turning into any "cops" show on TV, or searching YouTube, or reading the daily newspapers.

Trollkiller

If you are one of the good guys you have to agree that one power tripping cop is too many. I have no tolerance for those that abuse power, why do you think I am still pounding my head on the TSA blog.

While lobster7's claim that the vast majority are "arrogant, abusive, power tripping, us vs them attitude jack booted thugs" may seem a stretch to you, I have to agree based on my experiences with them.

Almost every cop I have met or have known has an "us v them" mentality. They will protect a cop that steps over the line at the expense of a "civilian" unless they perceive that the civilian's expense will be too great or they perceive the civilian will not just roll over. (Translation: Few cops would allow a civilian to go to jail for murder to protect a fellow cop, but the majority will let a civilian get a ticket to protect a fellow cop.)

Almost every cop I have met on a professional level (they were on duty) is arrogant. They have a "it's my way or the highway" stance. Where do you think that corn cob up the butt walk comes from? That arrogance leads to or equals power tripping.

They are the AUTHORITY and don't you forget it. When a TSO pulls that we all agree it is a power trip so the same term can be used for a cop.

If a cop is power tripping that is abuse.

Let me give you few examples of cops I have dealt with on "professional" level. Kinda long but I want to give complete accounts.

When I was about 21, some cops came to a party at a friend's house. Most of the people were completely trashed, I was not as I normally don't drink. (read stone cold sober) The cops went to the back of the house and peeked in a window. The girl in that room pulled the shades and ran into the living room to tell us that there was someone peeking in.

The cops used that excuse to "bust in" the front door. (turned the knob and rushed in, weapons were not drawn) One of the guys that lived in the house sprang from the couch in punched the first cop in. (I don't think he knew it was a cop).

The police arrested his brother because they though he was the one that threw the punch. (both wearing the same shirt but they have completely different builds and heights) Danny was drunk and uncooperative when they tried to place him in the car. I asked the cops if I could try to get him to go and they agreed. I placed my hands behind my back so they were in full view of the cops and told Danny to "sit down and shut up" and that is what he did.

I waited until the cops had secured the car door and then I asked them "Where do I have to go to bail him out?" The reply I received was "Shut up and take your a$$ back in the house or I will arrest you too". (note: I was the ONLY person from the party that was outside the house, so it was no mob scene)

Up to this point I was being polite, I wasn't mad or even miffed. I understood why Danny was being arrested and figured it would all work out in the wash. Once the power trip was put out there with the threat of abuse, my stance understandably changed.

If the cop had simply answered the question there would have been no need for me to inform him that I was completely sober, that I would not shut up as he did not have the authority to give that command, and that the entry into the house without identification on a noise complaint was illegal. There should have been no need for me to challenge the cop to arrest me if he felt he had probable cause that I had committed any crime. There should have been no need for me to have to firmly ask the question again. BTW that time I got an answer.

Next example, I was driving in Houston and apparently there had been an accident down the off ramp I needed. There was a cop car parked a mile (a little over a mile, I checked) away from the ramp in the right hand lane. It was parked behind a good sized chunk of debris. The ramp was clear but there were a few cops walking around (no flares, no lights just cops with flashlights) I asked my wife if she thought the ramp was open, she replied she could not tell. I eased over into the clear right lane and proceeded at 30 mph. A cop on the ramp motioned me to get back in the lane I just came from. I tried to comply but some jerk decided to blow his horn. When the cop heard that he stormed up the ramp. By this point I was at a standstill waiting to get back in traffic. (note: still at least 200 yards from the exit ramp)

When the cop got to my car he started cussing me and telling me to pull over to the shoulder and "f-word wait for him and he would deal with me when he was f-word ready, you son of a b-word". (note: I had the kids with me)

I complied, pulled over and stood outside my car. I had my wife hand me some paper and a pen. The cop that was parked a mile back walked up to me and demanded to know why I was waiting on the side of the road. I explained and showed him how the lane was clear of anything that would indicate it was closed. He told me I had to wait for the other officer. At that point I demanded the name of the supervisor, the name of the cop I was waiting on, the name of the cop that was in front of me, and the name of the officer in charge of internal affairs.

Needless to say I was given none of the information and was told just to go ahead and leave, no need to wait for the other cop, sorry for the delay.

First cop, arrogance and abuse, second cop "us v them".

I have several more and they all have the same theme. A cop willing to abuse until they figure out that you are just the kind of person that will stir the pot.

Maybe what you see as "controlling" a situation the public sees as being arrogant and power tripping. Those of us that are not criminals do not want to be treated as such.

I have run into some good cops, but I would have to say it runs about 5 to 1 ratio of bad to good.

BTW if you ever pull over someone because their car matched a suspect's car just tell them. There is no need to look for another excuse or pull the "do you know how fast you were going?", especially if you figured it out BEFORE I stopped my car. Seriously, most people understand, all we need is a "Your car matched a BOLO, sorry for the delay, have a good night".