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Old Apr 7, 09, 11:43 am   #76
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
Are you talking about a pervert taking pictures at a TSA Checkpoint?

If so aren't you just as concerned about a pervert feeling up some kid under the guise of a pat down?
Yes and yes.

The latter would seem easier to discern, though.
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Old Apr 7, 09, 11:49 am   #77
  
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Originally Posted by Spiff View Post
Welcome to the public.

The First Amendment does not disappear at the checkpoint, much as Comrade TSA might like it to.

Do we bar cameras when the police are frisking someone in public? Or when the police are tossing someone's car? The only difference is that these actions are being performed by non-law enforcement personnel with NO probable cause to do so. All the more reason to record these disgusting actions on film. Perhaps someday these recordings will come in handy for a criminal trial against TSA...
I'd be willing to be that people would vote for privacy over an odd freedom, if given the chance. But you have a valid rationale.
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Old Apr 7, 09, 11:53 am   #78
  
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Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
I'd be willing to be that people would vote for privacy over an odd freedom, if given the chance.
Do you mean privacy while in a public place where hundreds of people can see you, and the odd freedom that is documenting the interaction between government agents and those they purport to serve, also in a public place where hundreds of people can see the activity?
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Old Apr 7, 09, 11:54 am   #79
  
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Originally Posted by ND Sol View Post
My understanding is that a request may be made for a private screening of one's person and belongings. So if anyone is uncomfortable with being on display, that is the option. Are TSO's instructed to communicate that info to those pax prior to secondary screening?
Absolutely. Along with that can come the stigma of being segregated from the public. "Why was that person walked into that room?" "OMG, they are on my flight!" "Are they a terrorist?" "Why is Mommy going away with that lady?" "What did he do?"

I know, it seems a little dramatic, but I'm sure you get my point.
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Old Apr 7, 09, 11:56 am   #80
  
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Originally Posted by txrus View Post
I wonder if Bob is getting grief from those who are being contacted & that's why he's being this way? After all, he's the one who essentially told you to do this & put all of them on the hot seat, forcing them to make statements we all know they don't want to make & maybe even stand by them @ some point!!
That sounds pretty logical to me. Considering that the e-mail the got stated that Bob told people to contact the airport to check.
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Old Apr 7, 09, 11:57 am   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
Absolutely. Along with that can come the stigma of being segregated from the public. "Why was that person walked into that room?" "OMG, they are on my flight!" "Are they a terrorist?" "Why is Mommy going away with that lady?" "What did he do?"

I know, it seems a little dramatic, but I'm sure you get my point.
If you have nothing to hide why should you fear being photograph?
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Old Apr 7, 09, 11:58 am   #82
  
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Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
Along with [a request may be made for a private screening of one's person and belongings] can come the stigma of being segregated from the public.
I'd be willing to bet that any people who are concerned about their privacy being violated in public places by members of the public photographing their public activities would vote for segregation to a private place over such "loss of privacy."
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Old Apr 7, 09, 12:03 pm   #83
  
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Originally Posted by pmocek View Post
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but yes.



Yes. Especially during the time when TSA staff search us and our belongings.

Why would I care about someone photographing what he can see anymore than I would care about him remembering the same thing?
Some people would prefer that their presence at the checkpoint not be memorialized any more than necessary. Everyone goes @pesh!t about privacy from the Government, but we are willing to give it up to a private citizen? What may or may not happen to me at the checkpoint is between myself and the TSA. I understand the right to photograph people in public places. Just because you can doesn't mean you necessarily should.

JMHO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
If you have nothing to hide why should you fear being photograph?
If you have nothing to hide, why not declare why you are carrying $4,700 through a checkpoint?

Same principle applies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmocek View Post
I'd be willing to bet that any people who are concerned about their privacy being violated in public places by members of the public photographing their public activities would vote for segregation to a private place over such "loss of privacy."
True.

Last edited by Cholula; May 6, 09 at 9:55 pm Reason: Merging, multiple, successive posts
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Old Apr 7, 09, 12:10 pm   #84
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
Some people would prefer that their presence at the checkpoint not be memorialized any more than necessary.
Probably so. And many of those people are public employees who are acting inappropriately. Let's memorialize their presence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
Everyone goes @pesh!t about privacy from the Government, but we are willing to give it up to a private citizen?
Could you be a little more specific, please? I'm an ardent supporter of personal privacy, and I think I have misunderstood you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
What may or may not happen to me at the checkpoint is between myself and the TSA.
Actually, I think everything that does happen to you at an airport checkpoint is between you, TSA, and the hundreds of other people who are there withing visible range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
I understand the right to photograph people in public places.
Great! Let's work together to ensure that TSA does not infringe upon that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
Just because you can doesn't mean you necessarily should.
Agreed.
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Old Apr 7, 09, 12:16 pm   #85
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
If you have nothing to hide, why not declare why you are carrying $4,700 through a checkpoint?

Same principle applies.
I don't think so. When I keep my personal business to myself, I'm not, per se, hiding anything. When people in our government prevent us from knowing what they are doing or prevent us from documenting what we have seen them doing (thus preventing us from informing others of these actions), they are hiding something.
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Old Apr 7, 09, 12:29 pm   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
If you have nothing to hide, why not declare why you are carrying $4,700 through a checkpoint?

Same principle applies.
No it doesn't.

It's NO ONE's business except the person with the $4700 why they happen to have the money.
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Old Apr 7, 09, 12:31 pm   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
Absolutely. Along with that can come the stigma of being segregated from the public. "Why was that person walked into that room?" "OMG, they are on my flight!" "Are they a terrorist?" "Why is Mommy going away with that lady?" "What did he do?"

I know, it seems a little dramatic, but I'm sure you get my point.
"Why is that person being groped by Comrade TSA?"

"Why is Comrade TSA tossing that person's bags?"

"Why is Comrade TSA questioning that person about their ID and/or travel plans?"

"What did they do? Are they terrorists?"
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Old Apr 7, 09, 12:34 pm   #88
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiff View Post
It's NO ONE's business except the person with the $4700 why they happen to have the money.
...or that they do have it. It is ridiculous that TSA agents count people's money.
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Old Apr 7, 09, 7:35 pm   #89
  
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Pmocek, so after a week you have not heard anything from 31 out of the 50 airports?

I am concerned about this statement from Midway, which appears to contradict Blogger Bob:

Quote:
Just for the record, I did not say that that "TSA does not bar photography of public areas of Chicago Midway International Airport." If you attempted to photograph any X-ray monitors or checkpoint operations, there is good chance that you would be stopped.
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Old Apr 7, 09, 9:30 pm   #90
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Sol View Post
Pmocek, so after a week you have not heard anything from 31 out of the 50 airports?
The current count of non-responsive airports is 28.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Sol View Post
I am concerned about this statement from Midway, which appears to contradict Blogger Bob:
I agree.

Statements that I consider to be cause for concern:
  • Boston Logan International (BOS): "I can almost guarantee that an attempt at video or photographing a security checkpoint at an airport will be a cause of concern by all present (including passengers), and a visit by Troopers, or other airport Law Enforcement almost inevitable."
  • Baltimore Washington International (BWI): "If you take a picture at or near the checkpoint someone from TSA or airport police may ask you what you're up to." "There are signs posted at our checkpoints. stating that taking photos or video's at the checkpoint is prohibited COMAR 11.03.01.09B(2) these signed were put up by the airport."
  • Port Columbus International (CMH): "You may be approached by one of our TSA Officers or local Port Columbus Law Enforcement if they see you are taking photos inquiring as to why."
  • Denver International (DEN): "it is not usually a good idea to take photos that might show TSA screening activities and equipment at any airport without setting it up with someone from TSA public affairs in advance. This is pretty much true of security activities and equipment internationally as well, and not just at airports."
  • Chicago Midway International (MDW): "If you attempted to photograph any X-ray monitors or checkpoint operations, there is good chance that you would be stopped."
  • Ontario International (ONT): "Photography at the security checkpoint and of security procedures is permitted as long as there are no photos of our computer monitors and the photography does not interfere with screening operations."
  • Phoenix Sky Harbor International (PHX): "TSA policy states that photography in and around the security checkpoint is permitted, so long as the action does not interfere with screening operations and that photos of our computer monitors are not taken."
  • Pittsburgh International (PIT): "There are signs posted at our checkpoint that say you cannot take pictures past the posted signs. These signs are property of the Airport Authority."
  • San Diego International (SAN): "TSA San Diego follows national guidelines when it comes to photography at the checkpoint. As such, photography is permitted so long as there is no picture taking of our monitors and the practice does not interfere with the screening process."
  • Orange County John Wayne (SNA): "TSA does not prohibit passengers or media from filming or photographing at our checkpoints, provided you refrain from filming of our x-ray monitors."
  • Tampa International (TPA): "Although TSA Does not prohibit public, passengers or press from photographing, videotaping, or filming at screening locations, please understand that airport employees and the flying public are becoming increasingly more suspicious of any person taking pictures in the airport. These suspicions will sometimes result in an investigation by the Airport Police. You can take pictures at our checkpoints as long as you're not interfering with the screening process or slowing things down."

Explicit confirmations of Bob's first statement, that photography of computer monitors is discouraged (others confirmed implicitly):
Updates since Friday afternoon:
  • Received first contact from Baltimore Washington International (BWI): Said if photography happens at or near checkpoint, TSA or airport police may ask questions. Confirmed Bob's statement that only restriction is if interfere with TSA operations, and that photographing computer monitors is discouraged ("we ask that you not..."). Said there are signs at airport stating that taking photos or videos at the checkpoint is prohibited, and that these were installed "by the airport". Provided contact at Maryland Aviation Administration. No response from them yet.
  • Received first contact from Charlotte Douglas International (CLT): Requested phone number. I said prefer e-mail, is that okay? No response.
  • Updates for Indianapolis International (IND): Forgot that she brought up "cookie cutter answers", quoted Bob again. Provided contact at local airport. Still awaiting answers to specific questions.
  • Updates for Phoenix Sky Harbor International (PHX): Contacted City of Phoenix for me. They responded promptly. City has policy covering commercial photography. Still awaiting answers to specific questions from city.

I've received responses from 21 people representing 22 of the 50 airports for which I submitted my question to TSA. Next, I plan to follow up with those who said they were going to find information for me and those to whom I posed followup or repeated questions. After that, I'll begin contacting the third parties to whom I have been referred (I've already done this in a couple cases). Then I'll re-submit my question for the airports which have not responded.

I welcome any suggestions or criticism.

Quote:
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:49:25 -0400
From: "Duckett, David" <David.Duckett%AT%dhs.gov>
Subject: Photo's at airport
To: Phil Mocek
Cc: GotFeedback <Gotfeedback%AT%dhs.gov>

If you take a picture at or near the checkpoint someone from TSA or airport police may ask you what you're up to. We don't prohibit public , passengers or press from photographing videotaping, filming at screening locations as long as you do not interfere with screening or the process. We ask that you do not take photos of our monitors . However local laws , state statues, or local ordinance may have a issue. Check with BWI airport to see what their policies maybe.

MIKE DUCKETT
TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION
CUSTOMER SERVICE MANAGER
801 INTERNATIONAL DR. SUITE 300
LINTHICUM MD, 21090
410-689-3669

This communication, along with any attachments, is covered by Federal and State law governing electronic communications and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please reply immediately to the sender and delete this message.
Quote:
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:28:05 -0700
From: Phil Mocek
Subject: Re: Photo's at airport [BWI]
To: David Duckett - TSA <David.Duckett%AT%dhs.gov>
Cc: GotFeedback <Gotfeedback%AT%dhs.gov>

Thank you, Mr. Duckett, for confirming that TSA places no restrictions on photography or video taping from publicly-accessible areas of Baltimore Washington International Airport (other than the requirement that such activity not interfere with TSA operations), and that TSA discourages but does not prohibit photography of TSA computer monitors.

Bob Burns at TSA wrote in his March 31, 2009, post to the TSA blog that rules might vary at individual airports due to local and state law, and suggested that interested parties contact TSA via the "Got Feedback?" program. He said that the person who responded would either provide answers or make a referral to someone who can.

Could you please provide contact information (e-mail, postal mail, and telephone, in that order of preference) for someone in particular whom you recommend as a resource for this information? I want to be sure I contact someone who is an authoritative source for the information.

Thank you for your continued assistance.

--
Phil Mocek
Quote:
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:18:11 -0400
From: "Duckett, David" <David.Duckett%AT%dhs.gov>
Subject: RE: Photo's at airport [BWI]
To: Phil Mocek
Cc: GotFeedback <Gotfeedback%AT%dhs.gov>

The customer service manager for BWI airport is
KELLY DERTHICK
MARYLAND AVIATION ADMIN
PO BOX 8766,3RD FLOOR, TERMINAL BUILDING
BWI AIRPORT,MD 21240-0766
kderthick%AT%bwiairport.com
410-859-7034

There are signs posted at our checkpoints. stating that taking photos or video's at the checkpoint is prohibited COMAR 11.03.01.09B(2) these signed were put up by the airport.
Quote:
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:04:27 -0700
From: Phil Mocek
Subject: Any local laws affecting photography %AT% BWI? [was: Photo's at airport [BWI]]
To: Kelly Derthick - Maryland Aviation Administration <kderthick%AT%bwiairport.com>
Cc: GotFeedback <Gotfeedback%AT%dhs.gov>, David Duckett - TSA <David.Duckett%AT%dhs.gov>

Thank you, Mr. Duckett, for the referral.

Ms. Derthick, upon the suggestion of Bob Burns at TSA [1], I am seeking information about any local policies that might affect the legality of photography and video recording at BWI. Multiple people at TSA, including Bob Burns and David Duckett, have stated that the only restriction TSA places on such activity is that it must not interfere with TSA operations.

I have three questions that I hope you can answer:

1. Could you please explain the signs posted at BWI checkpoints that Mr. Duckett, TSA Customer Service Manager at BWI, described? (He wrote to me, "There are signs posted at our checkpoints. stating that taking photos or video's at the checkpoint is prohibited COMAR 11.03.01.09B(2) these signed were put up by the airport.")

2. What is "COMAR 11.03.01.09B(2)"?

3. Are you aware of any local laws, state statutes, or local ordinances that would apply to a situation in which someone wishes to photograph or or videotape something he is able to see from publicly-accessible areas of BWI without interfering with TSA or airport operations?


References:

[1]: <http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/03/can-i-take-photos-at-checkpoint-and.html>

--
Phil Mocek
(The following was added to this comment 2009-04-20.)

Quote:
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:13:05 -0700
From: Phil Mocek
Subject: Re: Any local laws affecting photography @ BWI? [was: Photo's at
airport [BWI]]
To: Kelly Derthick - Maryland Aviation Administration <kderthick%AT%bwiairport.com>
Cc: GotFeedback <Gotfeedback%AT%dhs.gov>,
David Duckett - TSA <David.Duckett%AT%dhs.gov>

Ms. Derthick, I have received no contact from you. Are you able to provide the information I have requested?

--
Phil Mocek
Quote:
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:58:28 -0400
Subject: RE: Any local laws affecting photography @ BWI? [was: Photo's at airport [BWI]]
From: Kelly Derthick <kderthick%AT%bwiairport.com>
To: Phil Mocek

Please call me when you get a chance. Thank you,

Kelly S. Derthick
Manager, Customer Service
BWI Thurgood Marshall Airport
Striving to be the #1 Airport in the Country

Office 410-859-7034
Cell 443-623-1768
Fax 410-859-7208
Quote:
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:04:01 -0700
From: Phil Mocek
Subject: Re: Any local laws affecting photography @ BWI? [was: Photo's at
airport [BWI]]
To: Kelly Derthick - Maryland Aviation Administration <kderthick%AT%bwiairport.com>
Cc: GotFeedback <Gotfeedback%AT%dhs.gov>,
David Duckett - TSA <David.Duckett%AT%dhs.gov>

Ms. Derthick:

I'm working in a rather noisy environment now, and I have difficulty talking on the telephone while taking notes about my conversation, so I'd prefer to correspond via e-mail. Is that feasible? If not, please let me know what information you'll need from me when we talk so I can prepare myself for the talk.

--
Phil Mocek
Quote:
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 14:06:46 -0400
From: Kelly Derthick <kderthick%AT%bwiairport.com>
Subject: RE: Any local laws affecting photography @ BWI? [was: Photo's at airport [BWI]]
To: Phil Mocek

Phil:

I turned this over to the Manager, Division of Communications and he asked Legal for an appropriate response. Hopefully Jonathan Dean will get back to you soon. I apologize you were not notified it was being worked on.

Thanks very much,

Kelly
Quote:
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:22:39 -0400
From: "Stanton, Terry" <Terry.Stanton%AT%dhs.gov>
Subject: Photo's At Checkpoints-Charlotte
To: Phil Mocek

Please give me a call on the office phone number and I'll attempt to answer your questions regarding photo's and the

Area of concern by the TSA.

Terry Stanton
Customer Support & Quality Improvement Manager
Charlotte/Douglas International Airport
Office 704-916-2202
Cell 704-516-1799
Quote:
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:16:45 -0700
From: Phil Mocek
Subject: Re: Photo's At Checkpoints-Charlotte
To: Terry Stanton - TSA <Terry.Stanton%AT%dhs.gov>
Cc: GotFeedback <Gotfeedback%AT%dhs.gov>

I'm working in a rather noisy environment now, and I have difficulty talking on the telephone while taking notes about my conversation, so I'd prefer to correspond via e-mail. Is that feasible? If not, please let me know what information you'll need from me when we talk so I can prepare myself for the talk.

As a reminder, on March 31, 2009, Bob Burns at TSA published on the TSA blog some information about photography and video recording at airports. He said that the only restriction on such that TSA places is to require that it not interfere with TSA operations. He also wrote that TSA discourages but does not prohibit the photographing of computer monitors used by TSA at their airport search stations.

Mr. Burns said that rules might vary at individual airports, and suggested that interested parties contact TSA via the "Got Feedback?" program. He said that the person who responded would either provide answers or make a referal to someone who can.

So I'm interested in whether you know of any local or state laws restricting photography at your airport, whether TSA has any relevant rules that are specific to your airport. If you don't, I'd like contact information (e-mail preferred) of someone who will.

Thank you for your continued assistance.

--
Phil Mocek
(The following was added to this comment 2009-04-20.)

Quote:
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:12:38 -0700
From: Phil Mocek
Subject: Re: Photo's At Checkpoints-Charlotte
To: Terry Stanton - TSA <Terry.Stanton%AT%dhs.gov>
Cc: GotFeedback <Gotfeedback%AT%dhs.gov>

I have received no further contact from you. Are you able to provide the information I have requested?

--
Phil Mocek

Last edited by Cholula; May 6, 09 at 9:56 pm Reason: Merging, multiple, successive posts
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