PV Alert: Can I Take Photos at the Checkpoint and Airport?
#31
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Is it wrong to publish contact info for public relations staff of public agencies?
What I published were copies of e-mail sent by these "customer support" staff to a member of the public -- me. I would be surprised to find that anything in those messages was considered private. If I didn't publish the information, anyone who wanted it could get it via FOIA request. You at TSA seem to have a warped sense of what is private information.
I cringe every time I use the word customer in relation to TSA, who do not sell goods or services and thus have no customers, but if contact information for TSA's "customer support managers" was not previously published, then my doing so should be considered a service to TSA's "customers".
Please cut the sarcasm, Bob. It seems you're implying that I should feel responsible for something that might happen with information that is available in a phone book, on federal government "contact us" Web pages, and attached as the signature to every e-mail sent by federal government "customer support" staff in response to public inquiries.
Last edited by pmocek; Apr 2, 2009 at 8:21 am Reason: note that this was all sent in e-mail
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
If I have posted any personal information, it was a mistake -- please bring it to my attention and I will promptly take action. Best I can tell, the only contact information that these representatives provided in their e-mailed responses to questions posed via TSA's "Got Feedback?" program was their work contact information. It seems that in their jobs as public contacts for TSA, publication of their contact information would be part of the job.
Have no fear -- you published zero information protected by the privacy act. Since the TSA rubs our noses in the Privacy Act, I wouldn't expect any of their employees to know the first thing about it. There are specific categories of personally identifiable information (PII) protected under the privacy act. For Blogdad Bob to assert that official contact information for a government employee consisting of their email address, name, and office phone number is "personal" is beyond laughable.
Anybody who sends an email to anyone else -- government, private sector, or personal -- has no expectation of privacy that their message content and/or their name and email address will wind up all over the internet.
Also, the federal government is migrating to a common IT desktop standard. If you use this format: <first name>.<last name>@<agency>.gov for anyone in the government, you will be correct over 90% of the time just guessing. Many federal agencies, including mine, post their entire personnel directories including names, email, phone, office, room number, on their public web sites.
Blogdad Bob is just blowing smoke and trying to publically intimidate you. But, now that I think about it, that's the TSA's job.
Keep doing what you're doing. But, expect the word to get around and for your responses to suddenly dry up. Also, for everyone, expect to see this information redacted from future email responses from the TSA.
#33
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
TSA's moderators deleting & disallowing comments that comply with their own rules
Quoting your blog's "what will get your comment deleted" page:
While we’re on the subject of deleted posts, it’s important to know why we do delete some posts. It all breaks down to the following reasons:
Other than that, all's fair in love and blogging.
- Personal attacks (on both officers and passengers)
- Profanity (and I thought some sailors knew how to curse)
- Long embedded url strings (only because it messes up the format of the blog)
- Threats (enough said on this one)
- Duplicate posts (hitting submit 12 times won't make the comment appear any faster)
- Off-topic comments (and since we can't tell which topic a comment goes under when we moderate, we mean REALLY off topic, think plagues of locust off topic…)
- Sensitive information (TSA folks explaining exact procedures that could aid someone wishing to do us harm)
Other than that, all's fair in love and blogging.
#35
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 861
It amazes me that the moderators here would allow Phil to post personal contact information for our Customer Support Managers. I had to delete one instance on the TSA Blog where Phil included one of the manager's addresses. Not cool.
These folks have taken the time to help Phil only to have their e-mail addresses and phone numbers posted for public view. I'm sure they'll appreciate being spammed and pranked.
Bob
These folks have taken the time to help Phil only to have their e-mail addresses and phone numbers posted for public view. I'm sure they'll appreciate being spammed and pranked.
Bob
Also, could you please verify whether the recording of the TSA goons harassing that guy for carrying cash is an authentic recording?
#36
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
It amazes me that the moderators here would allow Phil to post personal contact information for our Customer Support Managers. I had to delete one instance on the TSA Blog where Phil included one of the manager's addresses. Not cool.
These folks have taken the time to help Phil only to have their e-mail addresses and phone numbers posted for public view. I'm sure they'll appreciate being spammed and pranked.
Bob
These folks have taken the time to help Phil only to have their e-mail addresses and phone numbers posted for public view. I'm sure they'll appreciate being spammed and pranked.
Bob
With the exception of public figures, do not post names, addresses, phone numbers or e-mails of other FlyerTalk members. This information will be removed by moderators. Respect the privacy of non-management travel service employees by not referring to them by name.
Personally, I would redact the information as I do not believe it actually provides additional value to the posts, but that doesn't mean it is a violation of the ToS. I'm not a moderator in this forum and I will judge whether I think these posts are a violation of the ToS unless one of the mods here asks me to.
#37
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
TSA P.R. staff's e-mail sig lines are like letterhead: hardly private information
Consider that the information I published is seemingly distributed by these federal government public relations staff to anyone and everyone who contacts them via TSA's "Got Feedback?" program.
Also consider that this information would likely be valuable to anyone who doubts the authenticity of the messages I published and wishes to contact TSA staff to verify the accuracy of the information, as well as to anyone who would like to inquire about related information.
To take this off the Internet and into meatspace, imagine that you contacted the public relations department for some federal government agency, and that the letter you received in response contained information that you felt would be valuable to others. Were you to photocopy that letter and tack copies on local community bulletin boards, would you feel the need to white out contact information on the letterhead used by the TSA staff when they responded to your inquiry?
#38
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 684
It amazes me that the moderators here would allow Phil to post personal contact information for our Customer Support Managers. I had to delete one instance on the TSA Blog where Phil included one of the manager's addresses. Not cool.
These folks have taken the time to help Phil only to have their e-mail addresses and phone numbers posted for public view. I'm sure they'll appreciate being spammed and pranked.
Bob
These folks have taken the time to help Phil only to have their e-mail addresses and phone numbers posted for public view. I'm sure they'll appreciate being spammed and pranked.
Bob
If they are spammed or pranked then you should go after the people doing and not assume that this is automatically going to happen. You can run the TSA website the way you see fit, but you don’t get to apply your standards here.
One of the 5 or 6
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
Thanks for the input. I've put a lot of thought into this, but multiple heads tend to be better than one.
Consider that the information I published is seemingly distributed by these federal government public relations staff to anyone and everyone who contacts them via TSA's "Got Feedback?" program.
Consider that the information I published is seemingly distributed by these federal government public relations staff to anyone and everyone who contacts them via TSA's "Got Feedback?" program.
Phil I see no problem with posting the names and other official business contact information that the TSA Customer Support employees freely provided. If it was personal information I would feel differently.
Bob has his knickers in a wad because it is very clear that what he posted on the PV Blog and what is happening out in the real TSA World are two completely separate things.
It is also clear that TSA field personnel have no clue on this topic.
I'm really surprised that we haven't seen an update post over at PV just yet.
You know that internal discussions are ongoing while they try to figure out which alibi they will go with.
#40
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
To take this off the Internet and into meatspace, imagine that you contacted the public relations department for some federal government agency, and that the letter you received in response contained information that you felt would be valuable to others. Were you to photocopy that letter and tack copies on local community bulletin boards, would you feel the need to white out contact information on the letterhead used by the TSA staff when they responded to your inquiry?
#41
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
avoiding exposure to spammers' address harvesting by obfuscating addresses
I'm well aware of spammers' address harvesting. In this case, it seems that the addresses are so public that they're bound to be picked up elsewhere (such as from the inbox of someone using a Windows machine, most of which are infected with malware, often harvesting addresses), but it was a simple matter to edit each post to obfuscate all the e-mail addresses, so I did.
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
Maybe. There is also a notable difference when it comes to posting info online - particularly email addresses - as there are automated systems that harvest those addresses and use them nefariously. Such a parallel doesn't exist in the offline world. But this is a whole different discussion than the topic at hand.
#43
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Ex Platinum & 1MM, DL PLT, Marriott Gold, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,490
Bob, what amazes me is that you think this information cannot be made public. He is not posting personal contact information, such as their home phone number; he is posting their professional contact information. If these people are Customer Support Managers than we should be able to contact them either through the TSA website or directly.
If they are spammed or pranked then you should go after the people doing and not assume that this is automatically going to happen. You can run the TSA website the way you see fit, but you don’t get to apply your standards here.
One of the 5 or 6
If they are spammed or pranked then you should go after the people doing and not assume that this is automatically going to happen. You can run the TSA website the way you see fit, but you don’t get to apply your standards here.
One of the 5 or 6
Sorry, Bob, but you are way off base on this. I know accountability is a 4-letter word in the TSA's world, but most of us live by it because both our employers & customers demand it.
#44
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
update: TSA re: airport photography policies: Dallas/Fort Worth International (DFW)
Comment #19 "TSA re: airport photography policies: Dallas/Fort Worth International (DFW)" has been updated with additional information received today. This includes further comments from Chuck Sloan, TSA Customer Service Manager at DFW, as well as information from Leslie Young, Legal Assistant to DFW International Airport Board, who relayed information from the General Counsel for the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport Board (DFW rules and regulations speak only to commercial photography, and an explanation of how the commercial nature of photography is judged).
#45
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
airport photography policy survey status
Current status:
My "Got Feedback?" submissions were made at approximately 2009-03-31 21:30 -0700.
I have received initial responses, requested specific information from, and now await replies from these people:
I have received referrals to specific outside contacts from these people, whom I thank for their assistance:
I have not yet received any response from CA Los Angeles, CA Oakland, CA San Francisco, CA San Jose, FL Ft. Lauderdale, FL Miami, FL Orlando, FL Tampa, GA Atlanta, HI Honolulu, LA New Orleans, MD Baltimore, MI Detroit, MN Minneapolis/St. Paul, MO Kansas City, MO St. Louis, NC Charlotte, NJ Newark, NM Albuquerque, NV Las Vegas, NY New York (John F. Kennedy), OH Cincinnati, PA Philadelphia, PR San Juan, TN Memphis, TN Nashville, TX Dallas (Love Field), TX Houston (Intercontinental), TX Houston (William P. Hobby), TX San Antonio, UT Salt Lake City, or WA Seattle-Tacoma.
My "Got Feedback?" submissions were made at approximately 2009-03-31 21:30 -0700.
I have received initial responses, requested specific information from, and now await replies from these people:
- Denver International (DEN): Robert Kapp
- Indianapolis International (IND): Rene Harris
- Ontario International (ONT): April Ellis
- Orange County John Wayne (SNA): Cheryl Paine
- Phoenix Sky Harbor International (PHX): Philip Kaiser
- Pittsburgh International (PIT): Laura A. Snell
- Port Columbus International (CMH): John Dipaola
- Portland International (PDX): Tina A. Blake
- San Diego International (SAN): Leslie Adlam
- (airport unknown; didn't say): Joy V. Martinez
I have received referrals to specific outside contacts from these people, whom I thank for their assistance:
- Chicago Midway International (MDW): John Devona
- Chicago-O'Hare Inational (ORD): Barbara Hornbach
- Dallas/Fort Worth International (DFW): Chuck Sloan
- LaGuardia (LGA): Guy Lainis
- Logan International (BOS): Marina Blanciforte
- Raleigh-Durham International (RDU): Amy Humpherson (EDIT: was erroneously in other list, but provided contact on April 2)
- Sacramento Metropolitan (SMF): James Robert Smith, Jr.
- Washington-Dulles International (IAD) and Ronald Reagan National (DCA): Susan Rohde
I have not yet received any response from CA Los Angeles, CA Oakland, CA San Francisco, CA San Jose, FL Ft. Lauderdale, FL Miami, FL Orlando, FL Tampa, GA Atlanta, HI Honolulu, LA New Orleans, MD Baltimore, MI Detroit, MN Minneapolis/St. Paul, MO Kansas City, MO St. Louis, NC Charlotte, NJ Newark, NM Albuquerque, NV Las Vegas, NY New York (John F. Kennedy), OH Cincinnati, PA Philadelphia, PR San Juan, TN Memphis, TN Nashville, TX Dallas (Love Field), TX Houston (Intercontinental), TX Houston (William P. Hobby), TX San Antonio, UT Salt Lake City, or WA Seattle-Tacoma.
Last edited by pmocek; Apr 3, 2009 at 11:18 am Reason: correction: Humpherson at RDU provided contact 4/2