TSA & Currency Control
Dec 31, 2008, 1:25 pm
#1
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TSA & Currency Control
Well, Blogdad Bob has finally posted some supposed justification for referring people to Law Enforcement just because the person happens to have a large amount of currency. I suspect the heat was getting rather high around the TSA Freedom Abatement Center.
What is even more surprising is who signed the TSA document "Operation Directive: Discovery of Contraband During the Screening Process OD-400-54-2 May 9, 2005", TSA's Chief Operating Officer at the time, Jonathan J. Fleming.
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Flemi...258324137.aspx
Founder and CEO of Global S2 which just happens to provide screening and security solutions for passengers and shipment of goods.
I wonder just how many non-competitive DHS/TSA contracts that Global S2 has been awarded since the formation of the company?
I would be interested!
Perhaps we have found where some of the TSA's soon to depart people are headed.
What is even more surprising is who signed the TSA document "Operation Directive: Discovery of Contraband During the Screening Process OD-400-54-2 May 9, 2005", TSA's Chief Operating Officer at the time, Jonathan J. Fleming.
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Flemi...258324137.aspx
Founder and CEO of Global S2 which just happens to provide screening and security solutions for passengers and shipment of goods.
I wonder just how many non-competitive DHS/TSA contracts that Global S2 has been awarded since the formation of the company?
I would be interested!
Perhaps we have found where some of the TSA's soon to depart people are headed.
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Dec 31, 2008 at 2:21 pm Reason: completed sentence/modified sentence for better reading
Dec 31, 2008, 2:14 pm
#2
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Why are TSA counting cash they find, anyway?
Setting aside the fact that TSA are checking everyone who crosses their checkpoints, not just those people bound for destinations outside the U.S., how would TSA's luggage inspectors even find that someone had more than $10,000? Notice two $10,000 bills in a bag? See some cash and dig through it looking for dangerous items, counting the cash as they dig?
They say that they're not looking for things like illegal drugs and large amounts of currency, but it's clear that they are taking the opportunity to search for whatever they want. Our government is searching all the honest people just to find the few criminals. It's disgusting.
They say that they're not looking for things like illegal drugs and large amounts of currency, but it's clear that they are taking the opportunity to search for whatever they want. Our government is searching all the honest people just to find the few criminals. It's disgusting.
Dec 31, 2008, 2:43 pm
#3
Join Date: Jan 2003
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According to Bart a few years ago, they counted the cash to reassure us that they're not stealing it. Interestingly, that post has since been deleted.
Here's another thread on the subject of Flying with Cash INTRA USA.
Here's another thread on the subject of Flying with Cash INTRA USA.
Dec 31, 2008, 3:20 pm
#4
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The entire subject of >$10,000 is driving me nuts. Not one of the alleged TSA posters can seem to understand that it is NOT illegal to transport money domestically. Neither is it illegal to take it into or out of the country if the proper papers have been filed. Yet almost to a person the alleged TSA people posting on the blog seem to deem it reasonable to report individuals carrying large sums of money.
In fact, this Fleming person has declared >$10,000 cash to be contraband along with illegal drugs and drug paraphernalia.
In fact, this Fleming person has declared >$10,000 cash to be contraband along with illegal drugs and drug paraphernalia.
Dec 31, 2008, 4:16 pm
#5
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The entire subject of >$10,000 is driving me nuts. Not one of the alleged TSA posters can seem to understand that it is NOT illegal to transport money domestically. Neither is it illegal to take it into or out of the country if the proper papers have been filed. Yet almost to a person the alleged TSA people posting on the blog seem to deem it reasonable to report individuals carrying large sums of money.
In fact, this Fleming person has declared >$10,000 cash to be contraband along with illegal drugs and drug paraphernalia.
In fact, this Fleming person has declared >$10,000 cash to be contraband along with illegal drugs and drug paraphernalia.
If they say it enough, perhaps it will get to the point of reality.
Dec 31, 2008, 4:22 pm
#6
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Unfortunately, the discussion is being had by lots of people who don't understand the reasons for the protections against abuse of power that we've built into our legal system. I suppose that to someone who doesn't "get it", the idea of TSA bag checkers taking the opportunity to assume everyone is a criminal and search them for things well outside of TSA's areas of interest is a good one.
Those people seemingly cannot think abstractly, outside their own situation, and realize that in the long run, such a dragnet operation is bad news. They are probably concerned only with convenience and not with freedom. It's sad that we've developed such a culture, and it's going to take lots of effort to convince people that if we don't exercise our rights at times when we don't feel we need them, we are likely to find that we've lost them when the time comes that we really need them.
Last edited by pmocek; Dec 31, 2008 at 6:01 pm Reason: fix typo
Dec 31, 2008, 5:31 pm
#7
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the transportation of any (repeat, any) amount of currency solely within the borders of of the united states and its territories is completely legal-period.
any transportation of currency, foreign currency equivalent, or other negotiable instruments) whose value is greater than $10,000 u.s. is legal as well provided you fill out the proper paperwork.
from the actual instructions...
if anyone from the tsa ever questions me about having a large amount of currency, my response will simply be...
do you know what the law regarding currency transportation is?"
"are you a law enforcement officer?"
"am i under arrest"? (bonus points as it's a trick question for them)
"would you please bring the tsa terminal manager over along with a local or federal law enforcement officer"
"thank you, i'll wait for them right here if you don't mind"
any transportation of currency, foreign currency equivalent, or other negotiable instruments) whose value is greater than $10,000 u.s. is legal as well provided you fill out the proper paperwork.
from the actual instructions...
WHO MUST FILE:
(1) Each person who physically transports, mails, or ships, or causes to be physically transported, mailed, or shipped currency or other monetary instruments in an aggregate amount exceeding $10,000 at one time from the United States to any place outside the United States or into the United States from any place outside the United States, and
(2) Each person who receives in the United States currency or other monetary instruments In an aggregate amount exceeding $10,000 at one time which have been transported, mailed, or shipped to the person from any place outside the United States.
A TRANSFER OF FUNDS THROUGH NORMAL BANKING PROCEDURES, WHICH
DOES NOT INVOLVE THE PHYSICAL TRANSPORTATION OF CURRENCY OR
MONETARY INSTRUMENTS, IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE REPORTED.
(1) Each person who physically transports, mails, or ships, or causes to be physically transported, mailed, or shipped currency or other monetary instruments in an aggregate amount exceeding $10,000 at one time from the United States to any place outside the United States or into the United States from any place outside the United States, and
(2) Each person who receives in the United States currency or other monetary instruments In an aggregate amount exceeding $10,000 at one time which have been transported, mailed, or shipped to the person from any place outside the United States.
A TRANSFER OF FUNDS THROUGH NORMAL BANKING PROCEDURES, WHICH
DOES NOT INVOLVE THE PHYSICAL TRANSPORTATION OF CURRENCY OR
MONETARY INSTRUMENTS, IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE REPORTED.
do you know what the law regarding currency transportation is?"
"are you a law enforcement officer?"
"am i under arrest"? (bonus points as it's a trick question for them)
"would you please bring the tsa terminal manager over along with a local or federal law enforcement officer"
"thank you, i'll wait for them right here if you don't mind"
Dec 31, 2008, 8:33 pm
#8
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I think they believe that carrying large amounts of money is suspicious. What they don't seem to understand is that whether or not it seems suspicious, in this country we have limits on what sort of suspicion warrants detaining and searching someone, and traveling within the country with a bunch of cash doesn't cut it. It's clear as day to me that even though we've made this exception and allow warrantless searches for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries, the scope of those searches should not be extended to include things that we wouldn't otherwise be able to stop and search people for.
Unfortunately, the discussion is being had by lots of people who don't understand the reasons for the protections against abuse of power that we've built into our legal system. I suppose that to someone who doesn't "get it", the idea of TSA bag checkers taking the opportunity to assume everyone is a criminal and search them for things well outside of TSA's areas of interest is a good one.
Those people seemingly cannot think abstractly, outside their own situation, and realize that in the long run, such a dragnet operation is bad news. They are probably concerned only with convenience and not with freedom. It's sad that we've developed such a culture, and it's going to take lots of effort to convince people that if we don't exercise our rights at times when we don't feel we need them, we are likely to find that we've lost them when the time comes that we really need them.
Unfortunately, the discussion is being had by lots of people who don't understand the reasons for the protections against abuse of power that we've built into our legal system. I suppose that to someone who doesn't "get it", the idea of TSA bag checkers taking the opportunity to assume everyone is a criminal and search them for things well outside of TSA's areas of interest is a good one.
Those people seemingly cannot think abstractly, outside their own situation, and realize that in the long run, such a dragnet operation is bad news. They are probably concerned only with convenience and not with freedom. It's sad that we've developed such a culture, and it's going to take lots of effort to convince people that if we don't exercise our rights at times when we don't feel we need them, we are likely to find that we've lost them when the time comes that we really need them.
Apparently in the TSA world there is no limit to their administrative search and it is quiet clear that many TSO's believe that.
Now we know that Fleming decided that $10K cash is contraband. He even went so far as to put his name on a
document that classses good old US greenbacks in the same category as illegal drugs and drug paraphernalia.
Now wasn't that real american of him?
With guys like him we no longer have need of a legislative branch of government. Won't that save some tax dollars
I interested Fleming's company, the items they produce and any dealings with DHS/TSA. Dollars to a donut he is the winner of any number of non-competetive DHS/TSA contracts.
I suspect a little more digging will turn up some unfinished compost. I have a spade and the time to break ground, although any help would be welcomed.
Dec 31, 2008, 8:57 pm
#9
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Dec 31, 2008, 9:12 pm
#10
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https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...31007299&pli=1
Note the posting on 31 December at 12:31 PM.
The post following this one is quiet enlightening on the mindset of your typical TSO>
Note the posting on 31 December at 12:31 PM.
The post following this one is quiet enlightening on the mindset of your typical TSO>
Dec 31, 2008, 11:35 pm
#12
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: HSV
Posts: 876
Blogger Bob went through some hoops to get you guys that information, too. Directives such as that are almost always considered to be SSI (the only ones that aren't, that I'm aware of, have to do with our dress code :P). For him to get that posted onto the Blog would have required a great deal of parlay with the office of the Administrator as he bandied back and forth with justification for doing it, and showing how it would be more beneficial to the mission than not releasing it (in this case, public opinion).
In the end, Kip Hawley would've had to given him written permission to release the full-text information of the Directive, and lift it from SSI protection.
(By the way, this all goes on the assumption that it was SSI to begin with, and since it took this long, it most likely was.)
In the end, Kip Hawley would've had to given him written permission to release the full-text information of the Directive, and lift it from SSI protection.
(By the way, this all goes on the assumption that it was SSI to begin with, and since it took this long, it most likely was.)
Jan 1, 2009, 5:18 am
#14
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Duplicating Bob's post here
I'm duplicating the blog post here to take away Bob's option to decide it was a mistake to publish the Operation Directive and delete his post.
Originally Posted by Blogger Bob
Blogger Bob said...
Anonymous Said: All I want and have repeatedly asked is for TSA to show me what directives they are operating under that requires them to refer anyone to additional screening/interrogation because the traveler has a large amount of cash and who the official is that signed this directive. Nothing more.
------------------------------
OK. Below are two items. One is an excerpt from the "A Word From Our Lawyers Blog Post" from TSA's Chief Counsel, Francine Kerner. The other is the Operations Directive you have been asking for.
As far as passengers traveling domestically being referred to a supervisor for having $10,000 + of currency, this didn't happen back when i was a TSO. We only referred international passengers. Things may have changed, so I'm doing some research to get you an official answer. I also just e-mailed about 200 of my contacts from various locations around the country to see what's happening at their airports. Stay tuned...
2.21.2008 (From A Word With our Lawyers" Blog Post)
I see that at least one person was troubled by the fact that TSA's screening of airline passengers sometimes yields evidence of crimes not directly related to aviation security. Our responsibility and focus in the airport screening process is to prevent a terrorist attack involving aircraft. In the course of carrying out our mission by screening for weapons and explosives, however, we sometimes incidentally discover illegal items unrelated to transportation security. Federal law and policy require that we refer such items to law enforcement officers for appropriate action. See, for example, United States v. Marquez, 410 F.3d 612, 617 (2005). Francine Kerner – TSA Chief Counsel
Operation Directive: Discovery of Contraband During the Screening Process OD-400-54-2 May 9, 2005
Expiration – Indefinite
Summary - This directive provides guidance to ensure nationwide consistency in the appropriate referral or initiation of civil enforcement actions for incidents involving discovery of contraband during TSA screening procedures.
Procedures - When TSA discovers contraband during the screening process that is not a TSA Prohibited Item, the matter should be referred to the local Law Enforcement Officers as appropriate. An Enforcement Investigative Report should not be initiated.
Examples of such contraband include:
- Illegal Drugs
- Drug Paraphernalia
- Large Amounts of Cash(10,000.00)
The OD was signed by TSA's Chief Operating Officer at the time, Jonathan J. Fleming
For the rest of the document, (contact numbers and e-mails) please use the FOIA process for OD-400-54-2
Thanks,
Bob
EoS Blog Team
Anonymous Said: All I want and have repeatedly asked is for TSA to show me what directives they are operating under that requires them to refer anyone to additional screening/interrogation because the traveler has a large amount of cash and who the official is that signed this directive. Nothing more.
------------------------------
OK. Below are two items. One is an excerpt from the "A Word From Our Lawyers Blog Post" from TSA's Chief Counsel, Francine Kerner. The other is the Operations Directive you have been asking for.
As far as passengers traveling domestically being referred to a supervisor for having $10,000 + of currency, this didn't happen back when i was a TSO. We only referred international passengers. Things may have changed, so I'm doing some research to get you an official answer. I also just e-mailed about 200 of my contacts from various locations around the country to see what's happening at their airports. Stay tuned...
2.21.2008 (From A Word With our Lawyers" Blog Post)
I see that at least one person was troubled by the fact that TSA's screening of airline passengers sometimes yields evidence of crimes not directly related to aviation security. Our responsibility and focus in the airport screening process is to prevent a terrorist attack involving aircraft. In the course of carrying out our mission by screening for weapons and explosives, however, we sometimes incidentally discover illegal items unrelated to transportation security. Federal law and policy require that we refer such items to law enforcement officers for appropriate action. See, for example, United States v. Marquez, 410 F.3d 612, 617 (2005). Francine Kerner – TSA Chief Counsel
Operation Directive: Discovery of Contraband During the Screening Process OD-400-54-2 May 9, 2005
Expiration – Indefinite
Summary - This directive provides guidance to ensure nationwide consistency in the appropriate referral or initiation of civil enforcement actions for incidents involving discovery of contraband during TSA screening procedures.
Procedures - When TSA discovers contraband during the screening process that is not a TSA Prohibited Item, the matter should be referred to the local Law Enforcement Officers as appropriate. An Enforcement Investigative Report should not be initiated.
Examples of such contraband include:
- Illegal Drugs
- Drug Paraphernalia
- Large Amounts of Cash(10,000.00)
The OD was signed by TSA's Chief Operating Officer at the time, Jonathan J. Fleming
For the rest of the document, (contact numbers and e-mails) please use the FOIA process for OD-400-54-2
Thanks,
Bob
EoS Blog Team
Jan 1, 2009, 5:24 am
#15
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Originally Posted by Blogger Bob
Procedures - When TSA discovers contraband during the screening process that is not a TSA Prohibited Item, the matter should be referred to the local Law Enforcement Officers as appropriate. An Enforcement Investigative Report should not be initiated.
Examples of such contraband include:
- Illegal Drugs
- Drug Paraphernalia
- Large Amounts of Cash(10,000.00)
Examples of such contraband include:
- Illegal Drugs
- Drug Paraphernalia
- Large Amounts of Cash(10,000.00)
They have essentially extended their administrative search to search for contraband that is otherwise not illegal. They refer the cash to law enforcement, bypassing the probable cause requirement that cop would have had to search for the cash. And then depending on the cop's local rules, the cop may have the option to seize the cash with no other evidence what so ever and the burden of proof for recovery on the passenger.
Yes, you risk such seizure if you drive down the street with $11K in your car, but you are protected because the cops can't go searching for that cash unless they have legitimate probable cause to search your person and/or vehicle. TSA has bypasses that completely and created an extremely high risk that any domestic air traveler traveling with cash is subject to a high risk of seizure.
Those who don't believe slippery slopes of destroyed freedoms happen, and don't believe TSA is involved in these slippery slopes, need to consider this situation carefully.