Domestic ONLY Travel/Security Question on Warrants and Immigration for example
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Dec 15, 2023
#17
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In the interest of "anything for security" and "better safe than sorry", we volunteer that crowd first. Originally Posted by Superguy
Yet.
#18
DevilDog438 , Dec 17, 2007 9:11 am
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Traffic stops are predicated on reasonable suspicion or probable cause of violations of law. As these are now classified as "Terry" stops, the LEO has lawful access to your information using the various NCIC and locality wants/warrants check procedures.Originally Posted by LEX-LGA Commuter
Got it. As is an Interstate highway. And Lord knows, if you get pulled over or are involved in accident there, the state troopers never "run your license", right?
I agree with some others on this board, using the Airlines/Airports as a dragnet violates due process. The mere act of purchasing a ticket to fly on a domestic airline does not grant reasonable suspicion or probable cause to perform an NCIC or locality check on any individual.
#19
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Clearly, you didn't bother to read the "nothing to hide" fallacy paper I suggested. The root of the fallacy is that privacy is about concealing wrongdoing.Originally Posted by LEX-LGA Commuter
And as far as my own background is concerned, take your best shot.
#20
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As they're willing to take it in the shorts for security, I say let them. Originally Posted by GUWonder
In the interest of "anything for security" and "better safe than sorry", we volunteer that crowd first.
#21
LEX-LGA Commuter , Dec 17, 2007 9:39 am
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Then please explain why law enforcement agencies routinely track credit/debit card usage as a means to find criminals. There is nothing illegal about buying dinner, groceries, whatever, either. Originally Posted by DevilDog438
I agree with some others on this board, using the Airlines/Airports as a dragnet violates due process. The mere act of purchasing a ticket to fly on a domestic airline does not grant reasonable suspicion or probable cause to perform an NCIC or locality check on any individual.
Why is an airport apparently scared ground, but a restaurant is not? Better still, what about an ATM machine? Hell, it's their money from their bank.
#22
DevilDog438 , Dec 17, 2007 10:00 am
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Why is an airport apparently scared ground, but a restaurant is not? Better still, what about an ATM machine? Hell, it's their money from their bank.
Originally Posted by LEX-LGA Commuter
Then please explain why law enforcement agencies routinely track credit/debit card usage as a means to find criminals. There is nothing illegal about buying dinner, groceries, whatever, either. Why is an airport apparently scared ground, but a restaurant is not? Better still, what about an ATM machine? Hell, it's their money from their bank.
My reply was limited to a response concerning domestic airline travel and airline/airport activities in relation to warrant checks being performed. How you take that from an airport being sacred to a restaurant not being in the same category is beyond me.
IMO, warrantless searches of credit/debit card usage is a violation of the 4th Amendment, regardless of location. My mere presence in the world, or use of a credit card for purchases, does not grant the authority for a LEO to perform an NCIC check without the presence of a warrant.
#23
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Is our the government, big brother and/or airlines now checking that DHS consolidated database for Criminal Background checks/warrant checks, immigration violations etc...
Meaning if someone flew on a short domestic flight he/she could be arrested for a outstanding warrant or immigration violation.
If it is not happening yet, I bet its only a matter of time....
No civil rights left in US.
As an industry person with the knowledge, I can advise you that airlines currently do not have the ability to do what you advise. I can also tell you that in most cases, carriers WILL NOT give out passenger information without a warrant, as that is the policy. However, please note that LEO's with very good people skills and agents with a thing for LEO's could find themselves in a grey area here.Originally Posted by jk5598224
This question is only related to domestic only travel with lower 48.Is our the government, big brother and/or airlines now checking that DHS consolidated database for Criminal Background checks/warrant checks, immigration violations etc...
Meaning if someone flew on a short domestic flight he/she could be arrested for a outstanding warrant or immigration violation.
If it is not happening yet, I bet its only a matter of time....
No civil rights left in US.
#24
TerminalBliss , Dec 17, 2007 7:46 pm
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Originally Posted by Superguy
I'll see your TS/SCI and raise you a full scope poly with additional compartments.
Ok, I fold...and I really wanted a good cup of coffee! I did the poly once for No Such Agency and it wasn't a pleasant experience. I could swear the examiner had one of the lead roles in "Revenge of the Nerds." He flipped out because I admitted to forging a grade in 6th grade (a "c" to a "b", my first bad grade, mind you...and, yes, I did pay the price since I was grounded from basically all life for the next three months). He said something to the effect, "Walker did that!"
TB
#25
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TB
Some of those guys can be brutal. I know someone that was grilled 5 times ... hard. Others aren't too bad to work with. I'm not looking forward to re-upping though. Originally Posted by TerminalBliss
Ok, I fold...and I really wanted a good cup of coffee! I did the poly once for No Such Agency and it wasn't a pleasant experience. I could swear the examiner had one of the lead roles in "Revenge of the Nerds." He flipped out because I admitted to forging a grade in 6th grade (a "c" to a "b", my first bad grade, mind you...and, yes, I did pay the price since I was grounded from basically all life for the next three months). He said something to the effect, "Walker did that!"TB
#26
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Why limit it to airplanes? Do you want deadbeat dads walking down the street or going to the supermarket? Shouldn't we make everyone go through some kind of check as often as possible? Can't be too safe...Originally Posted by LEX-LGA Commuter
Do you truly believe that someone with outstanding warrants would put themselves in a position (like applying for a job for instance) that would require a background check? That aside, the message you are sending then is that airports are some kid of "safety zone"? A felon need only get to CVG and shout "all in free" or something? Sorry, I don't want him on my flight, he's all yours.
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Why is an airport apparently scared ground, but a restaurant is not? Better still, what about an ATM machine? Hell, it's their money from their bank.
Agreed! More places where we can put mandatory background checks! We can pass a law whereby to use an ATM you must enter an escape-proof box. If when you submit your realID card and fingerprints you are found to be suspicious, it locks up and you're detained until the police can come to arrest you.Why is an airport apparently scared ground, but a restaurant is not? Better still, what about an ATM machine? Hell, it's their money from their bank.
#27
LEX-LGA Commuter , Dec 18, 2007 3:01 pm
Since some of you can't seem to get past sarcasm and idiotic comments, I guess I'm done. But I'll leave you with this thought. Who exactly are these people you are so bound to coddle and protect? Deadbeat dads? Maybe. Wanted felons? Probably. At the very least they all have warrants or are here illegally, according to the premise here. So, do you truly believe that they are living in mainstream society and, for example, paying taxes every year? Or instead, are they costing each of us some sum of money due to lost tax revenue, increased law enforcement workload, etc.
So why you want to kiss their collective asses is beyond me, frankly. But it's a free country - have at it.
So why you want to kiss their collective asses is beyond me, frankly. But it's a free country - have at it.
#28
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So why you want to kiss their collective asses is beyond me, frankly. But it's a free country - have at it.
Many of those people are the dregs of the earth, but those are not who I am trying to protect in the situation posited. I am trying to protect the innocent ones, the rule of law and our constitution. Somewhat analogous to the saying that, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."Originally Posted by LEX-LGA Commuter
Since some of you can't seem to get past sarcasm and idiotic comments, I guess I'm done. But I'll leave you with this thought. Who exactly are these people you are so bound to coddle and protect? Deadbeat dads? Maybe. Wanted felons? Probably. At the very least they all have warrants or are here illegally, according to the premise here. So, do you truly believe that they are living in mainstream society and, for example, paying taxes every year? Or instead, are they costing each of us some sum of money due to lost tax revenue, increased law enforcement workload, etc.So why you want to kiss their collective asses is beyond me, frankly. But it's a free country - have at it.
#29
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Exactly. I want these people off the street just as much as the next guy. I just want them to do it within the framework of the law and constitution. Fishing expeditions aren't.Originally Posted by ND Sol
Many of those people are the dregs of the earth, but those are not who I am trying to protect in the situation posited. I am trying to protect the innocent ones, the rule of law and our constitution. Somewhat analogous to the saying that, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
They need to do it the right way.
#30
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Those asses -- the dregs of society, as ND Sol opined -- still have a right to due process in this country, last I checked. Criminal dragnets should not come at the expense of the principle of presumption of innocence. @:-)Originally Posted by LEX-LGA Commuter
So why you want to kiss their collective asses is beyond me, frankly. But it's a free country - have at it.