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Old Sep 6, 07, 5:12 am   #1
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Your right to fly without ID (proof at last)

Hi fellow FTers,

I fly without ID whenever I fly domestically. I've done it over 12 times now, but it can often be a crap-shoot, depending on the training of the TSA agent that I run into. Pulling out a copy of the appeals court ruling in Gilmore v. Gonzales is often futile, as TSA agents are not qualified (nor able in many cases) to parse the language in the court document.

I've spent the summer sending letters back and forth to TSA, and I finally got something from them on TSA letterhead, in easy to read english, which documents our flight to fly without showing ID.

I'll be printing it out and taking it with me on every future flight.

The letter can be seen here: http://www.dubfire.net/warner-tsa.png, while a longer blog post on the subject can be found here: http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9769089-46.html

If you print it out, and have any trouble with it at the airport- please drop me an email (csoghoian AT gmail DOT com).

Cheers

Chris
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Old Sep 6, 07, 5:45 am   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genome4hire View Post
Hi fellow FTers,

I fly without ID whenever I fly domestically. I've done it over 12 times now, but it can often be a crap-shoot, depending on the training of the TSA agent that I run into. Pulling out a copy of the appeals court ruling in Gilmore v. Gonzales is often futile, as TSA agents are not qualified (nor able in many cases) to parse the language in the court document.

I've spent the summer sending letters back and forth to TSA, and I finally got something from them on TSA letterhead, in easy to read english, which documents our flight to fly without showing ID.

I'll be printing it out and taking it with me on every future flight.

The letter can be seen here: http://www.dubfire.net/warner-tsa.png, while a longer blog post on the subject can be found here: http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9769089-46.html

If you print it out, and have any trouble with it at the airport- please drop me an email (csoghoian AT gmail DOT com).

Cheers

Chris
Very interesting Chris. It's great that your got your senator to personally act on your behalf with the TSA.

I'm going to keep a copy handy.

Great job.

PS - it's a great sign to have members of the media who realize how cumbersome flight security has gotten.
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Old Sep 6, 07, 6:28 am   #3
  
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thanks, just one more thing to print out and have at the ready in my suitecase.
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Old Sep 6, 07, 9:01 am   #4
  
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Chris - I am glad you received some documentation back concerning your requests for information.

However, the following passages do not give me the warm fuzzies...
Quote:
First, Mr. Soghoian asks whether TSA may require a passenger to produce a form of identification (ID), such as a Federal- or State-government-issued ID, in order to fly domestically. TSA has statutory authority to establish such a requirement. To date, TSA has not implemented this authority.
Quote:
As stated above, TSA has authority to establish such a prohibition, but has not done so to date.
Both of those quotes (emphasis mine) tell me that TSA has plans to implement this at some point in the future, probably near future given the comments of Skeletor and his minions of late.
Quote:
TSA's receipt of this information is within its authority and does not violate the Privacy Act.
In other words - if TSA asks for your information, you are within your rights to require a Privacy Act notice filled out, since they are a Federal entity and are required to do so under the conditions outlined in the Act. However, if they really want your information, but don't want to comply with the statutory requirements of the Privacy Act, they can just call a LEO over and get the LEO to capture your information and give it to them...bypassing the Privacy Act altogether since the LEO is not a Federal resource (with some exceptions - the Metropolitan Airports Authority police at IAD and DCA are actually Federal LEO).
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Old Sep 6, 07, 9:16 am   #5
  
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I'm not understanding why this would ever come into question.

First: If the airline issues the ticket, the person has been granted access to the sterile area.

Second: If a person has no ID, they receive secondary screening. The permission for access is not revoked, just the process of getting there changes.

Third: If a person refuses an Explosive Trace Portal screening, they are screened as though they have alarmed, thus patted down and bags are tested by the ETD.

This is standard procedure, so again, why would there ever be a problem?
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Old Sep 6, 07, 9:42 am   #6
  
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Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
This is standard procedure, so again, why would there ever be a problem?
Because many screeners do not follow standard procedure. Either because they don't know what the SOP is (bad enough) or because they deliberately ignore or exceed it (see oh, about 50 threads here).
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Old Sep 6, 07, 10:21 am   #7
  
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Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
I'm not understanding why this would ever come into question.

First: If the airline issues the ticket, the person has been granted access to the sterile area.

Second: If a person has no ID, they receive secondary screening. The permission for access is not revoked, just the process of getting there changes.

Third: If a person refuses an Explosive Trace Portal screening, they are screened as though they have alarmed, thus patted down and bags are tested by the ETD.

This is standard procedure, so again, why would there ever be a problem?
According to the letter, a pax does not have the right to refuse using the ETP. I know some airports were asking people if they wanted to try it back when they were undergoing trials, but now that they are online, there's no asking.
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Old Sep 6, 07, 11:47 am   #8
  
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My sincere thanks to the OP for continuing to fight the good fight. The OP was also responsible for pointing out the utter nonsense of boarding pass requirements by creating a boarding pass generator as discussed here:

Web site generates fake boarding passes

I know alot of us on this forum understand our rights as Americans and are concerned about challenges to our civil liberties and the right to freely travel on US soil. That is why I really truly appreciate those willing to take a stand on behalf of the rest of us.
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Old Sep 6, 07, 12:12 pm   #9
  
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Thank you for doing all of us travelers a service by taking time and energy to defend our Constitutional rights!

Chris, you have shown us how a true patriot acts.
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Old Sep 6, 07, 1:01 pm   #10
  
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Thanks for posting it.

Are there other pages? I find it strange that it's only one page with no signature or anything.
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Old Sep 6, 07, 1:06 pm   #11
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Originally Posted by themicah View Post
Are there other pages? I find it strange that it's only one page with no signature or anything.
I was wondering the same thing.
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Old Sep 6, 07, 1:13 pm   #12
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Originally Posted by themicah View Post
Thanks for posting it.

Are there other pages? I find it strange that it's only one page with no signature or anything.
If you pull up the .pdf file in the blog link, you'll see the second page. It's basically just fluff and the signature block.

What I find very curious about the letter is that the TSA sent it to a satelite office in southwestern VA rather than Warner's official Capitol Hill office.
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Old Sep 6, 07, 1:15 pm   #13
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDog438 View Post
Chris - I am glad you received some documentation back concerning your requests for information.

However, the following passages do not give me the warm fuzzies...


Both of those quotes (emphasis mine) tell me that TSA has plans to implement this at some point in the future, probably near future given the comments of Skeletor and his minions of late.

In other words - if TSA asks for your information, you are within your rights to require a Privacy Act notice filled out, since they are a Federal entity and are required to do so under the conditions outlined in the Act. However, if they really want your information, but don't want to comply with the statutory requirements of the Privacy Act, they can just call a LEO over and get the LEO to capture your information and give it to them...bypassing the Privacy Act altogether since the LEO is not a Federal resource (with some exceptions - the Metropolitan Airports Authority police at IAD and DCA are actually Federal LEO).
I'm sure you're familiar with the real I.D act, I'd be surprised if that and the requirement to proffer identification when flying don't occur simultaneously.
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Old Sep 6, 07, 1:20 pm   #14
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Thank you for doing this Chris. I'm going to carry printouts with me... hopefully they work here in SJU where not all of the TSO's have the basic English comprehension skills to read the letter
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Old Sep 6, 07, 1:36 pm   #15
  
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When approaching a security check point at an airport please have your boarding pass in one hand and your driver's license, passport or military ID in the other hand. If you do not have or refuse to show one of these, please do all of us normal people a favor and stay home.
Refusing to show ID does not make you a freedom fighter, a defender of the constitution or a hero. It does however prove that you are a pain in the ... who will just hold up the line for the rest of us.
Pgrin
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