denCSA

My ID was stolen a few months ago on my outbound flight. For the return, it was a PITA encounter with the smurf police (when is it not?). The ID checker called over Papa Smurf, who then instructed me that I had to literally DUMP OUT the contents of my carry on, wallet and give him everything with my name on it. Then, he barraged me with questions about purpose of my trip, family members, and other unrelated stupidities.

Once he was satisfied of that, he left me to put EVERYTHING back in my carry-on and wallet myself and walked off instructing me to follow him. Once I had all my things back in my bag, we did the whole x-ray thing, had a pat down and the same guy went through my bag and left everything out for me to return things to the proper place in my bag. Funny, hadn't we JUST done this before security

A VERY annoying experience, but just listen to Papa Smurf and follow directions and you'll eventually get through security just fine.

dstan

Please continue to follow this thread in the Travel Safety & Security forum.

dstan
AA Forum Co-Moderator

pmocek

Best we can tell, presenting documentation of one's identity at a TSA airport barricade is not a requirement, just an option. It seems that presenting documentation of your identity just gets you through with an abbreviated search and less questioning. So if you're in a hurry and don't want to wait, or if you're trying to sneak a weapon onto an airplane and don't want to have your belongings thoroughly searched, it's best to flash some kind of I.D. card.

Here's what I've been able to find out about TSA's policies regarding airline passenger identification:

What are the rules concerning airline passenger identification by TSA?

Although TSA refuses to publish all the rules they require passengers to follow at airport checkpoints, from what we can distill from TSA press releases, heavily-redacted information obtained via FOIA requests, TSA blog posts, and other information they publish on the Web, it's relatively clear that your boarding pass is all the documentation that's ever required for domestic flights. It seems that passengers are not required to present documentation of their identities to TSA staff, and that doing so is not a condition of crossing the TSA checkpoint.

TSA won't publish the rules we're supposed to follow. So what do we know about their I.D. policies?

According to a 2008 press release from TSA, TSA's airport passenger identification policy changed on June 21, 2008, but "showing I.D." was seemingly not required before and is seemingly not required now.

Prior to June 21, 2008

Before June 21, 2008, the situation seemed to be: In order to proceed to the "secure area" of an airport after being stopped at a TSA barricade, each passenger must submit to a pat-down and search for metallic objects using a hand-held metal detector, along with a hand-searching of any carry-on baggage, unless he presents documentation of his identity (i.e., unless he "shows I.D."), in which case he must submit only to a search for metallic objects on his person via walk-through metal detector and search of any carry-on baggage using an X-ray machine.

In other words: back then, showing I.D. simply got you a less-thorough search than you'd otherwise receive.

Now

Beginning June 21, 2008, the situation seems to be: Each passenger still has the option of showing I.D. and participating in the less-thorough searches (walk-through metal detector and X-raying of carry-ons), but the alternative now involves not only being thoroughly searched for dangerous items, but also identifying oneself verbally and participating in an interrogation intended to verify one's identity (via phone call from Homeland Security headquarters). Chillingly, it seems from the aforementioned TSA press release that this alternative also requires that someone be "cooperative with officers". What that cooperation entails is not defined.

Initial reports from TSA indicated that while people who claimed that their government-issued I.D. card was misplaced or stolen would be allowed to take the alternate route through the checkpoint (with the questioning), those who willfully refused to show their papers would be barred from proceeding. It's unclear whether or not this is still the case, or if it was ever the case, as TSA's initial press release seems, based on information received from TSA via Freedom of Information Act request, to have been inaccurate.

Summary of present situation and how to exploit it

In short, best we can tell, complying with TSA's "papers, please!" request is not necessary in order to fly domestically, it's simply a way to avoid the hassle of a thorough search for dangerous items, the hassle of providing convincing information in support of your claim to be who you say you are, and having to cooperate with TSA airport staff in any manner they see fit.

This is a great system for people who wish to do harm in airports or on airplanes, since getting a falsified identification document (i.e., a "fake I.D.") is relatively simple, and presentation of one almost guarantees that TSA staff will look at someone with less scrutiny, making it easier for him to take weapons, explosives, or incendiaries past the security checkpoint. Even if TSA could detect such fraud with perfect accuracy, using the Carnival Booth Algorithm, terrorists can probe an identity-based security system like TSA's by sending a number of people on harmless trips through the system, noting who is flagged for extra searches and who isn't. Then they can send those who aren't flagged -- people who almost certainly will get through security with a less-thorough search -- on terrorist missions.

Why does TSA want to identify us? What's wrong with them doing so?

This isn't about your safety. It's about control -- a few people's control over the rest of us.

The primary reason that TSA wants to know who you are is their desire to restrict people's movement based on Homeland Security blacklists. As did every government that has imposed totalitarian rules, TSA repeatedly tells us that their freedom-restricting policies are about safety, security, and rooting out subversives. Of course, this policy is really about extra-judicial punishment, allowing our executive branch of government to sidestep our judicial branch and punish someone for any reason or no reason at all. That's not the way things are supposed to work in the United States. It's ripe for abuse, and it's an infringement on our freedom.

For more on showing I.D. in the general sense, please see the Identity Project's "What's Wrong With Showing I.D.?" page.

Previous discussion on FlyerTalk

For more on TSA airport I.D. policies, see also the following FT threads (the first of which is what brought me to FlyerTalk for the first time):

• 2008-04-08: Article:No ID needed to board plane
• 2008-05-01: new info from TSA re: airlines requesting ID
• 2008-05-01: does the law/courts say ID is not required to...
• 2008-06-06: Starting June 21: Refuse to Show ID, No Entry to Sterile Area
• 2008-06-09: Actually, it looks like you can still fly without ID
• 2008-06-11: TSA blog addresses the new airport ID rule
• 2008-06-20: TSA says new airport ID rule is not about control
• 2008-06-22: No ID - Reports from the Field
• 2008-06-23: Forget ID after 6/21: expect invasive ?s including political affiliation
• 2008-11-19: Are you kidding me: No ID
• 2009-05-01: What is the ID Policy?
• 2009-05-27: TSA SOP re: airport ID requirements provided to IDP via FOIA request
• 2009-07-20: Flying with expired license
• 2009-07-28: Do kids with seats (age 2-10) need ID?
• 2009-08-04: Expired Drivers licence + Temporary One -Can I fly?
• 2009-08-10: Has anyone had a problem without photo ID at the gate of Jetblue at JFK and MCO?
• 2009-10-30: How many times do I show my BP and ID at the checkpoint?
• 2009-11-09: Can I travel with my expired drivers license as ID?
• 2009-11-16: Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID
• 2009-11-21: What happens if an ID is lost?
• 2009-11-22: No longer using passport as ID for TSA - here's why
• 2009-11-28: Expired ID
• 2009-11-30: Damaged NY State License
• 2009-12-08: Flying with expired id or no id
• 2009-12-20: College ID or Expired License for Check-in ID
• 2010-01-29: Great Safety Screening at EWR!!!
• 2010-02-04: Passport card not accepted by TSA yesterday
• 2010-02-06: Getting selected anyway, should I refuse to show ID?
• 2010-02-15: Flying Without ID & TSA @ SFO
• 2010-02-18: TSA requires Passport on Intl Flights?
• 2010-03-29: Can I travel with my expired drivers license as ID?
• 2010-04-11: ID required for unaccompanied minor?
• 2010-04-12: Question about using a DL at a checkpoint
• 2010-04-12: Costco card as ID

Cholula

Folks, we've had to remove the last several posts as being off-topic.

While avoiding all discussion of religion and/or politics is difficult we'd ask your cooperation in keeping those discussions to an absolute minimum here in TS/S.

Otherwise we may have to send the thread to OMNI/PR.

Thanks for your cooperation.

___________________

Cholula
TS/S Co-Moderator

fti

Way too much time on your hands

pmocek

I saw four of the posts that were removed. Two of them were my own. They were not related to "your right to fly without ID (proof at last)", but to whether or not discussion of flying without presenting documentation of identity is political or religious in nature (stated as "venturing into OMNI territory"; if my understanding of "OMNI" seems incorrect, someone please direct me to information I can use to gain a better understanding). It was sort of a meta-discussion (a discussion about the discussion).

Just prior to that brief discussion that has since been removed by forum moderators, I posted what is in essence an airport passenger identification policy FAQ. Though it has evolved over the years, at its core, it's the same information I've frequently posted on FlyerTalk for almost two years whenever people ask questions about airport passenger identification policies. It's my opinion that the fact these questions recur justifies repeatedly posting what answers I'm able to provide given the information I've been able to collect.

Cholula, is there a description somewhere of what, in this context, constitutes "discussion of religion" and what constitutes "discussion of politics"?

I would like to continue exploration of how TSA's requirement that passengers identify themselves and await permission to proceed from one state to another is related to travel safety and security, beginning with discussion of what the real purpose of that requirement is, but I'd prefer not to do so in such a manner that the discussion is banished to the OMNI ghetto. I'm willing to discuss the topic while respecting other people's opinions. In fact, I'm particularly interested in discussing this with people whose opinions generally differ with mine. I don't learn much from "preaching to the choir".

Earlier in this thread (and in scores of others, all referenced above), I wrote:
At least one person who is reading this feels that what I wrote was so political in nature that it's almost inappropriate for any FlyerTalk forum besides OMNI. While I know generally what it means for something to be "political", I don't know specifically. So I won't argue whether what I wrote was political or not.

Instead, I'll request assistance refining my message, which is directly related to the topic of this thread. Similar questions are almost certain to come up again (as TSA has not demonstrated any intention of educating the public about their policies, and has in fact spread misinformation about their policies), and I'm almost certain to share what I've learned about TSA passenger identification policies again.

Does anyone see factual errors in what I wrote above? Does anyone disagree with conclusions I have drawn and expressed based on the information I have described? Does anyone think that I'm leaving out information that would logically lead to different conclusions? If so, I'd appreciate those people speaking up now.

Fti, I don't have enough time on my hands to do all the things I want and need to do. I feel strongly about this issue, and there aren't many other people speaking out about it, so I make time to do so, sometimes to the detriment of other things I'd like to do. I wish more people would devote time to it, but until they do, here I am.

rgfloor

For pmocek, what has happened to your court case?
Is it in limbo?, progressing?
Not interested in details, just in general.

pmocek

A jury trial is scheduled for June 14, 2010 at 9:30 a.m. before Judge Julie N. Altwies of the Bernalillo County Metropolitan Court in Albuquerque. In recent weeks, we were informed that the district attorney will be prosecuting. With most misdemeanor charges in New Mexico, the arresting officer prosecutes, and that was the plan until recently.

I'll continue to post updates in the "Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID" thread, and I'll soon begin to e-mail updates to everyone who donated to my legal defense fund.

rgfloor

Thanks!!

Tyler Durden

I wish this was the case for my cousin right now -- she had her wallet stolen here in the city. Now she's at JFK dealing with TSA agents who are having none of it. They tried to make her go back into Manhattan to file a police report.

Edited to add: Cousin made her flight thanks to an understanding and helpful police officer, I assume PAPD.