View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with the action undertaken by MKEbound?
Agree
766
75.92%
Disagree
144
14.27%
Neither agree nor disagree
75
7.43%
Not sure
24
2.38%
Voters: 1009. You may not vote on this poll
I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today
Feb 6, 2008, 2:12 pm
#2026
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA EXP & 1MM, SkyTeam Gold, *A Gold, Hilton Gold, Starwood Gold, mother's favorite son
Posts: 333
Ditto the screening of cargo containers arriving on ships: critics say it would be too expensive, yet some of the busiest shipping countries in the world like Hong Kong screen 100% of their containers. The problem in the US is that big low cost retailers like Walmart don't want to suffer a 24-hour delay on the import of $29 television sets from china, and their lobbyists are influential.
The reality is that, at some point, airborne cargo is gonna blow a bunch of passenger planes out of the sky or a nuke is going to vaporize a harbor city, and after that we'll implement the security standards which people now say we shouldn't bother with.
Feb 21, 2008, 10:28 pm
#2027
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1
Yes they can require ID
If your state has a law (NV has such a law) and you are required by an officer to provide your name you must provide your name.:
By a vote of 5 to 4, the court ruled that Larry Dudley Hiibel's constitutional rights to be free of unreasonable arrest and to remain silent were not violated when Deputy Lee Dove arrested him for refusing to give his name after Dove stopped Hiibel and questioned him near Winnemucca, Nev., on May 21, 2000. Hiibel was convicted of violating Nevada's "stop and identify" law and fined $250
By a vote of 5 to 4, the court ruled that Larry Dudley Hiibel's constitutional rights to be free of unreasonable arrest and to remain silent were not violated when Deputy Lee Dove arrested him for refusing to give his name after Dove stopped Hiibel and questioned him near Winnemucca, Nev., on May 21, 2000. Hiibel was convicted of violating Nevada's "stop and identify" law and fined $250
Feb 22, 2008, 5:53 am
#2028
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
If your state has a law (NV has such a law) and you are required by an officer to provide your name you must provide your name.:
By a vote of 5 to 4, the court ruled that Larry Dudley Hiibel's constitutional rights to be free of unreasonable arrest and to remain silent were not violated when Deputy Lee Dove arrested him for refusing to give his name after Dove stopped Hiibel and questioned him near Winnemucca, Nev., on May 21, 2000. Hiibel was convicted of violating Nevada's "stop and identify" law and fined $250
By a vote of 5 to 4, the court ruled that Larry Dudley Hiibel's constitutional rights to be free of unreasonable arrest and to remain silent were not violated when Deputy Lee Dove arrested him for refusing to give his name after Dove stopped Hiibel and questioned him near Winnemucca, Nev., on May 21, 2000. Hiibel was convicted of violating Nevada's "stop and identify" law and fined $250
ID isn't required for travel ... you're just subjected to secondary haraSSSSment if you don't provide it.
Feb 22, 2008, 6:02 am
#2029
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
Apples and oranges. That applies only to law enforcement asking for ID's. TSA is not law enforcement. Additionally, they have no criminal grounds for asking for ID to board a plane.
ID isn't required for travel ... you're just subjected to secondary haraSSSSment if you don't provide it.
ID isn't required for travel ... you're just subjected to secondary haraSSSSment if you don't provide it.
Feb 22, 2008, 7:29 am
#2030
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
If your state has a law (NV has such a law) and you are required by an officer to provide your name you must provide your name.:
By a vote of 5 to 4, the court ruled that Larry Dudley Hiibel's constitutional rights to be free of unreasonable arrest and to remain silent were not violated when Deputy Lee Dove arrested him for refusing to give his name after Dove stopped Hiibel and questioned him near Winnemucca, Nev., on May 21, 2000. Hiibel was convicted of violating Nevada's "stop and identify" law and fined $250
By a vote of 5 to 4, the court ruled that Larry Dudley Hiibel's constitutional rights to be free of unreasonable arrest and to remain silent were not violated when Deputy Lee Dove arrested him for refusing to give his name after Dove stopped Hiibel and questioned him near Winnemucca, Nev., on May 21, 2000. Hiibel was convicted of violating Nevada's "stop and identify" law and fined $250
The Nevada law requires to you to orally identify yourself to an LEO. There is no requirement to present ID. Otherwise it would, in essence, be against the law to walk out your front door without carrying ID.
Mar 9, 2008, 11:04 pm
#2031
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
The OP's 15-minutes of fame continues
The OP is mentioned in an opinion piece in today's Wilmington, Del., News Journal ...
Talk about the Flyertalk Effect: 18 months hence and MKEbound's small gesture is hardly forgotten. ^
Make sense of airport security
By HOWARD M. BERLIN
Posted Sunday, March 9, 2008
In September 2006, Ryan Bird was detained for 25 minutes by officers at Milwaukee's General Mitchell International Airport because had a note inside his clear bag containing carry-on liquids to be scanned. The note said, "Kip Hawley is an idiot." It was Bird's way of protesting TSA's unreasonable rules, while larger threats largely go ignored.
Transportation Security Administration Director Kip Hawley has the longest tenure of anyone in the Homeland Security arm of federal government. For as long as Hawley has been ensconced in his job, you've got to wonder if he ever looks at what the rest of the world does at airports.
For instance, if you've flown since 9/11, you know that when boarding a plane in the United States, any carry-on containers of liquids, gels, lotions or creams (with certain exceptions) cannot be larger than 3 ounces. But if you fly from Europe, you have a 100-milliliter limit, which is equivalent to about 3.4 ounces -- 13 percent more. A 3-ounce container is not a regular size in Europe or the rest of the world; 100 ml. is.
I have never actually seen a TSA screener closely exam or measure a container to see whether it was the 100 ml. or the 3-ounce size.
So why can't Hawley declare that everyone can have a 100-ml. limit per container for liquids? We can use our 3-ounce bottles and the rest of the world can use their 100-ml. bottles. If this is OK in Europe, why isn't it OK for Americans?
...
By HOWARD M. BERLIN
Posted Sunday, March 9, 2008
In September 2006, Ryan Bird was detained for 25 minutes by officers at Milwaukee's General Mitchell International Airport because had a note inside his clear bag containing carry-on liquids to be scanned. The note said, "Kip Hawley is an idiot." It was Bird's way of protesting TSA's unreasonable rules, while larger threats largely go ignored.
Transportation Security Administration Director Kip Hawley has the longest tenure of anyone in the Homeland Security arm of federal government. For as long as Hawley has been ensconced in his job, you've got to wonder if he ever looks at what the rest of the world does at airports.
For instance, if you've flown since 9/11, you know that when boarding a plane in the United States, any carry-on containers of liquids, gels, lotions or creams (with certain exceptions) cannot be larger than 3 ounces. But if you fly from Europe, you have a 100-milliliter limit, which is equivalent to about 3.4 ounces -- 13 percent more. A 3-ounce container is not a regular size in Europe or the rest of the world; 100 ml. is.
I have never actually seen a TSA screener closely exam or measure a container to see whether it was the 100 ml. or the 3-ounce size.
So why can't Hawley declare that everyone can have a 100-ml. limit per container for liquids? We can use our 3-ounce bottles and the rest of the world can use their 100-ml. bottles. If this is OK in Europe, why isn't it OK for Americans?
...
Apr 6, 2008, 10:43 pm
#2032
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Refusal to ID
To answer the questions at the end, you absolutely DO NOT have the right to refuse to identify yourself to any peace officer or us(TSA) while at the airport. While I am an avid human rights enthusiast, and support the right to free speech, this was a serious lapse of judgement on your part. Use some common sense. If you figured it would cause a problem before you did it, you shouldn't have been so shocked afterwards. Would you go into a police station and insult them? Obviously not right? That would be really stupid. If you have a problem with the TSA, resolve your issues the right way. Write someone who might care that has enough political weight to toss around to get a change started, or start an interest group. TSA employees and passengers take stuff way to personally sometimes, and it doesn't resolve anything. Instead, it just creates hostility, and makes thing worse for everyone. We have to hear you all ....., then we get mad, and take the defensive. The more defensive we get, the more we arouse anger from people. It's a serious catch-22 and can be easily avoided using some general common sense:
1) read signs and follow directions
2) lose the attitude (TSA and passengers)
3) Don't argue at the checkpoint (again, TSA and passengers) it doesn't solve anything, and only makes situations more tense.
4) don't try do bring stuff you know you probably shouldn't, then get mad at us when we tell you that you can't take it with you.
1) read signs and follow directions
2) lose the attitude (TSA and passengers)
3) Don't argue at the checkpoint (again, TSA and passengers) it doesn't solve anything, and only makes situations more tense.
4) don't try do bring stuff you know you probably shouldn't, then get mad at us when we tell you that you can't take it with you.
Apr 6, 2008, 11:05 pm
#2033
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
To answer the questions at the end, you absolutely DO NOT have the right to refuse to identify yourself to any peace officer or us(TSA) while at the airport. While I am an avid human rights enthusiast, and support the right to free speech, this was a serious lapse of judgement on your part. Use some common sense. If you figured it would cause a problem before you did it, you shouldn't have been so shocked afterwards. Would you go into a police station and insult them? Obviously not right? That would be really stupid. If you have a problem with the TSA, resolve your issues the right way. Write someone who might care that has enough political weight to toss around to get a change started, or start an interest group. TSA employees and passengers take stuff way to personally sometimes, and it doesn't resolve anything. Instead, it just creates hostility, and makes thing worse for everyone. We have to hear you all ....., then we get mad, and take the defensive. The more defensive we get, the more we arouse anger from people. It's a serious catch-22 and can be easily avoided using some general common sense:
1) read signs and follow directions
2) lose the attitude (TSA and passengers)
3) Don't argue at the checkpoint (again, TSA and passengers) it doesn't solve anything, and only makes situations more tense.
4) don't try do bring stuff you know you probably shouldn't, then get mad at us when we tell you that you can't take it with you.
1) read signs and follow directions
2) lose the attitude (TSA and passengers)
3) Don't argue at the checkpoint (again, TSA and passengers) it doesn't solve anything, and only makes situations more tense.
4) don't try do bring stuff you know you probably shouldn't, then get mad at us when we tell you that you can't take it with you.
This post is almost 2 years old.
This incident got national attention and TSA got a lot of heat for it.
The guy did a good thing.
If you as a TSO can't take the heat, feel free to get another job. We don't have to be submissive sheep to get thru a checkpoint. We still have dignity and respect, though TSA tries to take that away on a regular basis.
Welcome to FT.
Apr 7, 2008, 4:26 am
#2034
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: DL Platinum, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Silver, Hertz 5 Star Gold
Posts: 287
You are simply an out of control agency who believes their own press clippings and further believes that they actually are stopping attacks and making us safer.
I'll have whatever you're smoking.
Apr 7, 2008, 3:01 pm
#2035
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Do you not have basic english comprehension skills or what? Notice that there is an OR separating TSA from peace officers in section of my statement that you so kindly misinterpreted. The fact is simple. The general public doesn't hear about anything we do, besides the crap that makes the news. It is called "spinning," and, yes, you're nothing more than sheep if you succumb to that kind of propaganda. In fact, on the lane I was working on today, we found a loaded 9mm Glock, multiple knives, pepper spray and fake bombs that our testers were trying to sneak through. Bottom line is that we know what we are looking for, and, contrary to popular belief, most of us are actually quite good at finding it.
Apr 7, 2008, 3:09 pm
#2037
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Undercover agents were able to smuggle prohibited items past screening checkpoints at Newark Liberty International Airport more than 90 percent of the time.
The tests were conducted Oct. 19 by Transportation Security Administration "Red Team" agents, who were able to smuggle through an array of fake bombs and guns in 20 of 22 tests at checkpoints through the hub's three terminals, federal security officials told The Star-Ledger newspaper.
The tests were conducted Oct. 19 by Transportation Security Administration "Red Team" agents, who were able to smuggle through an array of fake bombs and guns in 20 of 22 tests at checkpoints through the hub's three terminals, federal security officials told The Star-Ledger newspaper.
Apr 7, 2008, 3:09 pm
#2038
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9
No they were not. Only the fake bombs. The 9mm was some guy who "forgot" it was there. The pepper spray was a women with a child who thought "there should be exceptions for her because she is a women," and like I said, numerous knives. We find tons of knives everyday.
Apr 7, 2008, 3:17 pm
#2040
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9
And, on the other hand, some not quite so good. Remember this just 18 months ago in Newark? Are they doing any better now?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10282006...ionalnews_.htm
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10282006...ionalnews_.htm