Dont call me Shirley

From the FWIW dept: I conducted a rather un-scientific straw poll of about 10 TSA screeners and supervisors at a New England airport today. When asked what he/she would do upon seeing a "freedom baggie" (no I did not use that term) inscribed with the statement in question, no one said they would "detain", report, or otherwise hassle the passnger. Two said they would laugh or snicker. One would want to shake the passenger's hand with gusto (but would not actually do it). Others would not do or say anything. Three of the TSA people surveyed had seen this story in the paper or online.

All thought that calling the LEO was uncalled for.

robyng

You - or anyone else - is free to hire a lawyer of his or her choice. Just make sure when you hire a lawyer that that lawyer isn't trying to make his or her career or reputation on your dime and inconvenience. I've been in jail before - only a short time (contempt of court) - and I can assure you it is absolutely zero fun. OTOH - perhaps it is your cup of tea.

The competence of the TSA has nothing to do with this. Because at night - the TSA people will go and have a few beers - and go home - and sleep in their own beds. Most potential legal clients are people who'd like to do the same. My primary point here is that people who try to do what the OP did can't necessarily expect that the worst that will happen to them is they'll get to write a rant on FT. Robyn

GUWonder

That's responsible behavior by TSA employees. I'm glad to see that common sense still exists.

It's not the TSA employees that are idiots (although there are certainly bad apples, bad apples that don't get weeded out fast enough because the TSA is largely unresponsive, unaccountable and poorly-led); it's the leadership that can't show themselves to be sensible.

GUWonder

Not a concern for me. If having a plastic bag with the words "Kip Hawley is an idiot" is all that it takes to land someone in jail, something is broken in America. That is, it'll take government misbehavior for someone to end up in jail in circumstances akin to the OP.

The competence of the TSA has everything to do with why "Kip Hawley is an idiot" resonates with so many here. A lot of Americans who fly through US airports weekly or more realize that there is a lot of security stupidity in place. The plastic bag + 3 oz. rule is just one of the better examples of idiocy.

goheelswks

Bravo to the OP for expressing an opinion with which I'm sure the vast majority of FTers agree.

bollar

But then we'd have to play cricket and that's a high price to pay!

Doppy

So if you post "I hate the IRS" on FlyerTalk, you'd be OK with the feds showing up at the door to hassle you? How about arrest you? Getting booked isn't a penalty, isn't it? Where does the government's right to hassle dissenters end? Jail?

My time is valuable. Having a half hour wasted because I dared dissent against the government is a penalty, any way you look at it.

Read the First Amendment. Read the whole Bill of Rights. Being questioned and detained for dissent was precisely what the Framers and the states who wouldn't ratify the Constitution without the Bill of Rights were concerned about.

This isn't being "chicken little." I know my history: and it's full of examples of governments and rulers clamping down on dissent for their own gain. Well this one is supposed to be different.

Doppy

I got solicited last year at LAX. Not by the HKs, it was some other organization. But the point is that it still goes on there.

michaelcoyote

So if flyering is ok, then maybe after my next flight i should spend time handing out flyers regarding the the real problems with airport security that the tsa should be addressing instead of shaking us down for 3.25oz bottles of toothpaste.

_m

breny

What is it with you and Hare Krishnas? You seem a bit obsessed with them.

BTW, regarding your recommendation to retain counsel before I exercise my First Amendment rights, not gonna happen. I'm not driven by fear and feel quite comfortable taking the chance that the law is on my side.

Time and money are not everything. Some patriots make sacrifices so that others may be free.

Travellin' Fool

I couldn't care less if the IRS showed up at my door to hassle me. If I posted something like that it's because I was making a statement and looking for a confrontation, trust me, the IRS has shown up at my door without even posting that.

In a previous post, i made the argument that writing something "controversial" (it's in quotes because it's in the eye of the beholder) may very well render a controversial effect. Knowing that, how can you be surprised when you are detained (in the loosest sense of the word)?

History. I don't know you or your background so I can't argue with you on who knows more. You seem to be quite confident that you are well versed in history even to suggest that you know more about it than I. I just would caution that there is a huge difference in the "examples" I think you are alluding to and some stupid TSA agent and his boss getting worked up over a prank.

GUWonder

Your argument, as in its conclusion, is invalid vis-a-vis the circumstances applicable to the OP. We've already shown in earlier posts that there need not be an expectation of detention. Several associates have been flying with bags saying "Kip Hawley is an idiot" for the better part of the morning, and there was not a single detention; and the expectation this evening was that there would be not delays due to the bag's writing either. Not one report from any of them saying that there was a detention yet received emails after their scheduled arrivals. I'd be surprised if my carrying a plastic bag with such constitutionally-protected writing results in my detention tomorrow. No one whom I knew to do it today got detained. No one. If on Tuesday one of my associates gets subjected to the kind of TSA nonsense exhibited in the OP for flying with a "freedom bag", I'd be surprised.

This isn't a prank for many of us. It's a matter of being able to exercise our rights under the First Amendment without being subject to government reprisal from government employees abusing power to punish opinion they disagree with.

Travellin' Fool

ok, i see your point. But would it not be reasonable to suggest, that since the only rendering was on the "freedom bag" and not anywhere else, the target audience was in fact the screener or another TSA person in the area? You and I both agree that the TSA folks acted childish(or whatever word you want). However, given the nature of the words in that environment, a random sampling of said target audience will eventually produce someone who fits the "idiot" description who will go overboard. Just so happens that the OP hit the jackpot on his first pull.

Here's where we will just have to agree to disagree.

GUWonder

(There are situations where that need not be the case.) "Target audience" or not, government employees should not be harassing Americans for exercising their constitutional right and writing down that "Kip Hawley is an idiot".

Well, if the TSA is a normally-functioning organization, shouldn't it terminate "someone who fits the 'idiot' description who will go overboard"?


With what exactly are you disagreeing? That some of us don't think this is a prank but is an actual form of constitutionally-protected protest? Or that this is not a matter of being able to exercise our rights under the First Amendment without being subject to government reprisal from government employees abusing power to punish persons who write down constitutionally-protected opinions they disagree with?

How is this not a matter of being able to exercise our rights under the First Amendment without being subject to government reprisal from government employees abusing power to punish those persons who write down constitutionally-protected opinions with which they disagree?

This isn't a prank for me; for me it's much more a matter of curiosity about what kind of country we have become and will be; it's also a matter of reminding myself that every time I am complying with these idiotic rules related to plastic bags and 3 oz cut-offs that I am not buying into it, just going through the motions until the TSA gets some sense in this area.

Lumpy

...just disagree quietly. Idiots are paying attention and you may get in the way, too...

GUWonder, as you well know and have so eloquently expressed so often, there is, alas, ALREADY "...something broken in America." Our O.P. didn't have to sidle very close to the overhang at all to bring down the avalanche of many-headed snakes.