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View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with the action undertaken by MKEbound?
Agree 766 75.92%
Disagree 144 14.27%
Neither agree nor disagree 75 7.43%
Not sure 24 2.38%
Voters: 1009. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old Oct 2, 06, 10:58 am   #1501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
A biased first hand account. Given that neither you nor I probably know MKEBound personally an attempt to state that he would be more reliable is quite a stretch.
A biased first-hand account has more evidence in it than any account supplied by you or anyone else here. My assertion that his account is more reliable than any other account yet supplied is anything but "quite a stretch" and your assumptions above are in doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
Just because he says it's true and they aren't providing evidence that it isn't, it must be true?
Not necessarily. But his account is more reliable than any other account yet supplied. So you want to rely upon some fictional account or stick to what's in the OP?
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:01 am   #1502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travellin' Fool
How exactly was he penalized? He was hassled a bit but not anywhere near any seriousness. I just don't understand how he was a martyr for free speech so please stop making him look like some sort of hero standing up for the downtrodden. As I've said before, I think it was a funny prank and I'd do the same thing, but to compare it to some revolutionary stand... i think not.
It's tough for me to be objective in these sort of discussions so I've tried only to post to answer direct questions, report the events and to clarify points of discussion. It sure is a weird experience when so many people are willing to debate your motivation, expectations and truthfulness when they have never met you.

However, I want to address your point: It may not be a revolutionary stand to write a few words of protest on a baggie, but you yourself stated you will be willing to do the same thing.

I hope you do.

I hope more people speak up, write their Senators, write the TSA, write letters to the Editors, talk to their friends about the TSA, etc.

In the end, I want positive change at the TSA.

Who knows what the magic number of people doing these sort of things will be to cause real change, but it's easy to ignore us when it's just me or a few Flyertalkers. It's a lot harder to ignore thousands of people who are pointing out how idiotic some of the policies of Kip Hawley are.

Check out post 1249 for more information
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:03 am   #1503
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEbound
Yes, check out post #1184

Also, if anyone want to go back to the original first post I've added some links at the bottom to some of the important follow up post.
The first 4 of which are formatted incorrectly.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:03 am   #1504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travellin' Fool
How exactly was he penalized? He was hassled a bit but not anywhere near any seriousness. I just don't understand how he was a martyr for free speech so please stop making him look like some sort of hero standing up for the downtrodden. As I've said before, I think it was a funny prank and I'd do the same thing, but to compare it to some revolutionary stand... i think not.
The additional scrutiny that resulted due to constitutionally-protected writings is a hassle; the additional scrutiny was a penalty applied because of the constitutionally-protected writing on the bag. That's how he was penalized. The penalty included being subject to a law enforcement fishing expedition, including a NCIC check that would not have come about in the absence of the constitutionally-protected writings on a bag.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:11 am   #1505
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEbound
It sure is a weird experience when so many people are willing to debate your motivation, expectations and truthfulness when they have never met you.
I don't know how you're staying as reserved as you've been, TBH. I'd be refuting, responding, commenting, and more. And if I've misinterpreted you or attributed more/less to you than appropriate, I apologize. I tend to get pretty excitable about free speech.

GG
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:12 am   #1506
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEbound
It's tough for me to be objective in these sort of discussions so I've tried only to post to answer direct questions, report the events and to clarify points of discussion. It sure is a weird experience when so many people are willing to debate your motivation, expectations and truthfulness when they have never met you.

However, I want to address your point: It may not be a revolutionary stand to write a few words of protest on a baggie, but you yourself stated you will be willing to do the same thing.

I hope you do.

I hope more people speak up, write their Senators, write the TSA, write letters to the Editors, talk to their friends about the TSA, etc.

In the end, I want positive change at the TSA.

Who knows what the magic number of people doing these sort of things will be to cause real change, but it's easy to ignore us when it's just me or a few Flyertalkers. It's a lot harder to ignore thousands of people who are pointing out how idiotic some of the policies of Kip Hawley are.

Check out post 1249 for more information
MKEBound... I get why you did what you did. If you could answer for me just what exact TSA rules you think are idiotic? If you were given the power to make the rules for travel what would you keep, get rid of, add and why? Then I must also ask how you would handle the situation if one of your rules caused a situation like your experience? I'm not being sarcastic at all, my only point is that attacking the person wasn't the best possible case for you to create your argument. People tend to disagree with things like this because all too often a bold statement like yours is made with nothing to back the direct claim that he was/is an idiot. His rules may annoy us but why attack his intelligence? I would venture to guess that there are a whole lot of people involved in the decision making process when such rules are developed. This is your argument, tell us how you'd make the rules better for everyone.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:14 am   #1507
  
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I'm usually a lurker to the FT forum but this is such a raw-nerve topic for me.

IMO it doesn't stop with Hawly, it goes all the way to the top. Our rights are being eroded/denied based on knee-jerk reactions of incompetent political appointees who don't have a clue.

I don't know that I would be brave enough to "test" TSA screeners, but Kay Bailey gets an earful on issues I feel very strongly about, of which this is one. Her staff must cringe everytime they see an email from me.....

TSA is a synonym for "window-dressing". We're no safer now than we were on 9/10/01.

Major kudos to those of you who are willing to push TSA.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:17 am   #1508
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Far be it from me to tell someone how many posts on one single thread is "enough" or "too many" but IMO, if you can't get your message across in fewer than 36 separate posts in about 14 hours, you need to re-think your persuasive skills.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:20 am   #1509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
I'm dying to know why so many of you think it is OK to square off with TSA screeners and the like. Have any of you ever given any merit to the fact that these people are just as sick and tired of the crap that people deal them everyday as you are of the crap you have to go through to board a plane? I'm personally offended when people just for the basis of making a political statement engage in these silly exchanges with screeners. I can assure you that you are much more of a pain to them than they could ever be to anyone of us.
You are missing the fact that the screeners are the ones who "squared off with" the OP. There are those who claim that the OP "provoked" the incident by writing on his baggie as he did, but if the screeners had simply done their jobs, nothing would have come of this. The screeners, through their taking offense at a written (and demonstrably true, I might add) statement of opinion, then attempting to violate the OP's civil rights, are the ones who engaged and provoked the incident at hand.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:23 am   #1510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doober
Is not every candidate for an advanced degree required to write a thesis?
Depends on the program. If it's more of an academic based master's degree, then a thesis is required. If it's more a business or technology based one, it may not be required. Some programs may require a project or additional coursework instead of a thesis.

In my program (information assurance) and the University of Maryland, I am not required to write a thesis. In fact, it isn't even an option. Instead of the 30 credits + a thesis, we take 39 credits instead. A project was an option previously and is in some programs, but mine doesn't require it anymore.

Instead, I have to write tons of papers during the coursework to make up for it.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:29 am   #1511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
Please spare me the psychobable of Constitutional Rights. You'd be removed from my house if you came in here talking trash about me, you can say what you want but you can't do it in my house. This would apply in most any setting. I can make you leave and you can do nothing about it, you are not protected by the constitution if you go into someone else's "house" and attempt to discredit or smear their name.
Two things: first, an airport is not a private residence; it is a public space. Second, you are not (at least I hope not) a public figure. Public figures are fair game when it comes to "smearing" under the law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
It is what it is, he thinks that because he is a "normal" passenger that he is exempt from the rules, this kind of thinking will ensure he is treated like a common criminal.
Again, there's no matter of being "exempt" from the rules here. There are no rules against freedom of expression as the OP conducted it.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:30 am   #1512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyateach
Yes he was...unless you're suggesting he could've just walked away without anyone yelling at him to stop. I'm certain the TSO involved would not have let him just walk off without calling security.
Don't forget that according to the OP, the LEO flat out told him he was being detained. So I really can't see how anyone can say he WASN'T being detained.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:35 am   #1513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
So then none of you would mind if the rest of us who just want to board our flights without incident ask that you not be allowed to board because we feel threatened that you might cause a disruption on the flight. Do you think that the TSA would take the time to investigate our claims? Would I be violating your rights or would they?
Or how about if we ban you from the flight because your paranoia may cause a disturbance and infringe on someone else's rights? It goes both ways.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:36 am   #1514
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKarma
Geez, I really don't want to go through Flight 93 again, do you?
[KEVIN COSTNER VOICE]
Well you may not know this, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse than dying.
[/KEVIN COSTNER VOICE]

Sorry to pick on you out of all the back and forth on this topic, but anytime I see a person who seems willing to give up freedoms for fear of dying, this quote from "Open Range" always comes to mind.

Jammer
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Old Oct 2, 06, 11:38 am   #1515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
So you were there? How slow did the lines move because security was heightened? I can assure you that other screens did in fact have a more watchful eye after the incident.
Going with the whole "you weren't there" response, what evidence do you cite to support that security was heightened and the lines were moving more slowly?
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