How do I get off the list?
Oct 12, 2015, 8:55 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,900
How do I get off the list?
This has never happened to me before, but I was detained for 3 hours today at MIA. I travel abroad often (2x a month), I have never been arrested; however, things got nuts today at MIA.
I use the Mobile App when landing at MIA but for whatever reason, it wouldn't process today (although it has many times in the past).
Anyway, when I got off the plane, I was met with a mean Border Control agent. He followed me through Customs, brought me to a back room, then escorted me to get my bag.
Completely humiliating experience, but at least my co-workers weren't there.
After getting my bags, we then walk to the back room and they ask me to sit down, I politely agree. They took my phone away, wallet, and wouldn't let me get anything to eat. no explanation of what was going on either.
Exactly 2 hours later, the same agent that met me outside the plane escorts me through Customs. I get handed off to a supervisor who asks me a bunch of questions. Why I was in Panama (mileage run), where I work, Why I travel to MUC often, what I do, where I stayed, am I married, kids, etc.
He inspects my bag and asks me to open my computer. I agree and he starts going through my documents. He then gives my cell phone back, phew, but asks for the PIN. I give it to him and he looks through it.
As hes going through my bag, he asks the most random questions:
1) Agent: "oh, you travel with dogs?" Me: "no sir, Ritz Carlton gave those to me as a gift on Saturday". Him: "why would the ritz do that?" Me: "because I stayed at the Ritz with my dogs before and they were sad I didn't bring them (no longer live in NYC). Him: "how do I know you stayed there?" Me: show him the letter from Manager.
2) Agent: "What are these papers for?" Me: "those are my wives medical records and bills". Agent: "how do I know thats your wife?"
This goes on for an hour.
The backside of the backpack is "cushioned" so he takes a knife to it. No drugs.
Then he says "oh sorry, we made a mistake. Someone with your same last name is wanted for a homicide that happened last night. You're free to go."
Shouldn't they verify my whereabouts first? Before this nonsense? After all, I did say (Multiple times) I was at the Riande Hotel in PTY.
I start to lose my temper a bit and ask "what am I going to do about my backpack". he says "I saw your paycheck, you can easily afford a new one".
After all was said and done, this took 3 hours. HOWEVER, even after I was released, my name wasn't released off the database. Since I often travel with colleagues, How Can I fix this?
This was completely humiliating and I travel again in 2 weeks. Do I need to hire an attorney? PI? Just to figure out
FYI: I know my names not off the list bc I try to use the Mobile App to clear customs, and it doesn't work.
I use the Mobile App when landing at MIA but for whatever reason, it wouldn't process today (although it has many times in the past).
Anyway, when I got off the plane, I was met with a mean Border Control agent. He followed me through Customs, brought me to a back room, then escorted me to get my bag.
Completely humiliating experience, but at least my co-workers weren't there.
After getting my bags, we then walk to the back room and they ask me to sit down, I politely agree. They took my phone away, wallet, and wouldn't let me get anything to eat. no explanation of what was going on either.
Exactly 2 hours later, the same agent that met me outside the plane escorts me through Customs. I get handed off to a supervisor who asks me a bunch of questions. Why I was in Panama (mileage run), where I work, Why I travel to MUC often, what I do, where I stayed, am I married, kids, etc.
He inspects my bag and asks me to open my computer. I agree and he starts going through my documents. He then gives my cell phone back, phew, but asks for the PIN. I give it to him and he looks through it.
As hes going through my bag, he asks the most random questions:
1) Agent: "oh, you travel with dogs?" Me: "no sir, Ritz Carlton gave those to me as a gift on Saturday". Him: "why would the ritz do that?" Me: "because I stayed at the Ritz with my dogs before and they were sad I didn't bring them (no longer live in NYC). Him: "how do I know you stayed there?" Me: show him the letter from Manager.
2) Agent: "What are these papers for?" Me: "those are my wives medical records and bills". Agent: "how do I know thats your wife?"
This goes on for an hour.
The backside of the backpack is "cushioned" so he takes a knife to it. No drugs.
Then he says "oh sorry, we made a mistake. Someone with your same last name is wanted for a homicide that happened last night. You're free to go."
Shouldn't they verify my whereabouts first? Before this nonsense? After all, I did say (Multiple times) I was at the Riande Hotel in PTY.
I start to lose my temper a bit and ask "what am I going to do about my backpack". he says "I saw your paycheck, you can easily afford a new one".
After all was said and done, this took 3 hours. HOWEVER, even after I was released, my name wasn't released off the database. Since I often travel with colleagues, How Can I fix this?
This was completely humiliating and I travel again in 2 weeks. Do I need to hire an attorney? PI? Just to figure out
FYI: I know my names not off the list bc I try to use the Mobile App to clear customs, and it doesn't work.
Oct 12, 2015, 10:27 pm
#2
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA Gold. UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,776
How long has it been since?
I'd contact your Senator and Congressman to have them take a look into the situation and for the rude ........ answer you got from the CBO about replacing the bag.
I know they're allowed to search and take apart bags in the search of drugs and such but since it was a rather obvious mistake with you there should be some sort of accountability.
I'd contact your Senator and Congressman to have them take a look into the situation and for the rude ........ answer you got from the CBO about replacing the bag.
I know they're allowed to search and take apart bags in the search of drugs and such but since it was a rather obvious mistake with you there should be some sort of accountability.
Oct 13, 2015, 4:01 am
#3
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 574
So if someone named Jones is a suspect in a robbery, everyone
named Jones gets "the treatment???" Screw that, sue the jerks
for all the trauma.
Also, how did the negative result on the drug hunch clear
you of the murder suspicion??? Two completely different crimes.
MIA customs is hell on earth. I wrote an article
called "Miami Customs Freak Show" about my nightmare there
and check out the abysmal Skytrax reviews of that hell hole.
http://www.airlinequality.com/airpor...miami-airport/
named Jones gets "the treatment???" Screw that, sue the jerks
for all the trauma.
Also, how did the negative result on the drug hunch clear
you of the murder suspicion??? Two completely different crimes.
MIA customs is hell on earth. I wrote an article
called "Miami Customs Freak Show" about my nightmare there
and check out the abysmal Skytrax reviews of that hell hole.
http://www.airlinequality.com/airpor...miami-airport/
Last edited by yandosan; Oct 13, 2015 at 4:08 am
Oct 13, 2015, 4:38 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,900
This happened yesterday.
Here is what I gathered..
1. Miami police are looking for a criminal with the same last name as me. When I was in PTY, the same guy committed another crime. Couldn't CBP just verify where I was staying first? Instead of this mess?
2. It seems I'm always going to be asked for secondary now. I still can't get a immigration receipt on the app.
3. MIA CBP is the worst, and even though I did nothing wrong, I'm still blacklisted permanently.
I'm still so angry about the whole thing.
Couldn't CBP just verify where I was? Couldn't, after verifying mistaken identify, they input that in the computer? Isn't it a bit unfair to go through all my personal data without a proper warrant? I told them where I was multiple times and they never believed me. How can I get off the back list or whatever it is called after they verified they had the wrong person?
It's a complete shame that these are the people who welcome foreigners into the United states. Especially when you have countries like Japan where immigration will go out of your way to help when you need it.
Here is what I gathered..
1. Miami police are looking for a criminal with the same last name as me. When I was in PTY, the same guy committed another crime. Couldn't CBP just verify where I was staying first? Instead of this mess?
2. It seems I'm always going to be asked for secondary now. I still can't get a immigration receipt on the app.
3. MIA CBP is the worst, and even though I did nothing wrong, I'm still blacklisted permanently.
I'm still so angry about the whole thing.
Couldn't CBP just verify where I was? Couldn't, after verifying mistaken identify, they input that in the computer? Isn't it a bit unfair to go through all my personal data without a proper warrant? I told them where I was multiple times and they never believed me. How can I get off the back list or whatever it is called after they verified they had the wrong person?
It's a complete shame that these are the people who welcome foreigners into the United states. Especially when you have countries like Japan where immigration will go out of your way to help when you need it.
Oct 13, 2015, 4:49 am
#5
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 574
I'd quit worrying about a possible "blacklist"--that is based
on speculation and not "damages." What you went through,
on the other hand, is past tense and concrete;
you might start trying to obtain an incident report and
call a local politician and lawyer, also a local journalist
or two might be interested.
Reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime (detention) and Probable Cause (arrest)
would be the threshold on the street-- I am worried airport customs are being used as rogue cops
with no accountability these days, especially in cases like this
where it would have been a simple phone call or computer check
to determine if you were the perp in question.
on speculation and not "damages." What you went through,
on the other hand, is past tense and concrete;
you might start trying to obtain an incident report and
call a local politician and lawyer, also a local journalist
or two might be interested.
Reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime (detention) and Probable Cause (arrest)
would be the threshold on the street-- I am worried airport customs are being used as rogue cops
with no accountability these days, especially in cases like this
where it would have been a simple phone call or computer check
to determine if you were the perp in question.
Last edited by yandosan; Oct 13, 2015 at 5:32 am
Oct 13, 2015, 11:43 am
#7
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA Gold. UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,776
From someone who has been on a list wrongly it's not that embarrassing. Frustrating yes but not embarrassing. The last few times until I got my redress number I would make jokes about telling my friends/coworkers that my doctor has phoned ahead to request a colonoscopy and these guys who all about a$$holes.
You may be getting ahead of yourself about being on a list. It has been a very short period and we all know how efficient gov't programs work. Wait a few more days and then try the app. If you're still on there talk to a lawyer and your gov't reps.
As far as the damage and attitude you should take this up with DHS and your reps.
You may be getting ahead of yourself about being on a list. It has been a very short period and we all know how efficient gov't programs work. Wait a few more days and then try the app. If you're still on there talk to a lawyer and your gov't reps.
As far as the damage and attitude you should take this up with DHS and your reps.
Oct 14, 2015, 6:57 am
#8
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta SkyMiles, AmEx, NorthWest WorldPerks, Jelly of the Month. S&H Green Stamps, Subway sub club
Posts: 1,754
And let's think rationally here. Someone commits a murder and then flies BACK to where it happened the very next day? Especially if they were already (safely) out of the country?
Possible, but I doubt it.
Oct 14, 2015, 8:19 am
#9
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I would let it go this time and see if it repeats itself the next time you return to the US. As you have pointed out, someone with the same last name is wanted for murder (no idea how common your last name is) and perhaps they have other features which match yours, e.g. roughly same age, same height/weight and the like. Maybe that person also has similar travel patterns.
CBP most certainly can detain you to verify your identity and that you are not the murderer. The fact that a Border Patrol Officer actually met you at the aircraft suggests that this is a lot more serious than the ordinary "guy on list." The fact that they continued a thorough search after they had verified your identity also suggests that there is more to this (although just as easily attributed to an SOP which requires the thorough search once they go down the 2-hour detention path).
But, maybe having satisfied themselves that you aren't the bad guy, everything is off the table. That is why I suggest letting this go this time to see if it repeats.
If it does repeat, then go through the Redress # process. Believe it or not, some elected official isn't going to make it happen faster and most public officials don't want to get involved in this sort of stuff because they know from bitter experience that vouching for someone can sometimes turn out to be not such a good thing.
CBP most certainly can detain you to verify your identity and that you are not the murderer. The fact that a Border Patrol Officer actually met you at the aircraft suggests that this is a lot more serious than the ordinary "guy on list." The fact that they continued a thorough search after they had verified your identity also suggests that there is more to this (although just as easily attributed to an SOP which requires the thorough search once they go down the 2-hour detention path).
But, maybe having satisfied themselves that you aren't the bad guy, everything is off the table. That is why I suggest letting this go this time to see if it repeats.
If it does repeat, then go through the Redress # process. Believe it or not, some elected official isn't going to make it happen faster and most public officials don't want to get involved in this sort of stuff because they know from bitter experience that vouching for someone can sometimes turn out to be not such a good thing.
Oct 14, 2015, 8:40 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 574
This is a lie. They would never admit that, if true.
Good point. Also I noticed he didn't respond why it's a "Blacklist"
if it "never happened before."
Also he never responded how the drug test cleared him of the more serious crime.
Sounds like a BSer, the more I think about it.
Good point. Also I noticed he didn't respond why it's a "Blacklist"
if it "never happened before."
Also he never responded how the drug test cleared him of the more serious crime.
Sounds like a BSer, the more I think about it.
Oct 15, 2015, 3:26 pm
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,410
Oct 15, 2015, 6:13 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,099
I would let it go this time and see if it repeats itself the next time you return to the US. As you have pointed out, someone with the same last name is wanted for murder (no idea how common your last name is) and perhaps they have other features which match yours, e.g. roughly same age, same height/weight and the like. Maybe that person also has similar travel patterns.
CBP most certainly can detain you to verify your identity and that you are not the murderer. The fact that a Border Patrol Officer actually met you at the aircraft suggests that this is a lot more serious than the ordinary "guy on list." The fact that they continued a thorough search after they had verified your identity also suggests that there is more to this (although just as easily attributed to an SOP which requires the thorough search once they go down the 2-hour detention path).
But, maybe having satisfied themselves that you aren't the bad guy, everything is off the table. That is why I suggest letting this go this time to see if it repeats.
If it does repeat, then go through the Redress # process. Believe it or not, some elected official isn't going to make it happen faster and most public officials don't want to get involved in this sort of stuff because they know from bitter experience that vouching for someone can sometimes turn out to be not such a good thing.
CBP most certainly can detain you to verify your identity and that you are not the murderer. The fact that a Border Patrol Officer actually met you at the aircraft suggests that this is a lot more serious than the ordinary "guy on list." The fact that they continued a thorough search after they had verified your identity also suggests that there is more to this (although just as easily attributed to an SOP which requires the thorough search once they go down the 2-hour detention path).
But, maybe having satisfied themselves that you aren't the bad guy, everything is off the table. That is why I suggest letting this go this time to see if it repeats.
If it does repeat, then go through the Redress # process. Believe it or not, some elected official isn't going to make it happen faster and most public officials don't want to get involved in this sort of stuff because they know from bitter experience that vouching for someone can sometimes turn out to be not such a good thing.
Oct 15, 2015, 10:54 pm
#13
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA Gold. UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,776
While I agree that you're due compensation for the bag I don't want to continue to see people being violated this way and my tax dollars paying for it...so let us move to correct the system. It's not going to be easy nor quick but if we stay silent nothing will progress but violations.
Oct 19, 2015, 9:39 pm
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,900
It's really not the backpack. It's the embarrassment of the immigration officer reading my wife's medical records... Who, unfortunately, at 28 had to get chemo. The fact that they also looked at my laptop was also a bit out of lin. Plus, when asked where do I go from here and about my backpack, he said 'you have enough money to figure it out'. I mean ....
Oct 25, 2015, 2:57 pm
#15
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Radisson Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 3,622
How did they identify you? Were they checking passports of exiting passengers on the jetbridge?
I agree with the poster who said that their story about someone with the same name being wanted for a murder the day before might be untrue. Cops are allowed to lie. They might have stopped and searched you for a different reason but they don't want you to know the true reason.
You can make an online FOIA request for all documentation about the incident. You'll get the records in about six months, heavily redacted, but they will be interesting to you.
I've been in secondary inspection five times. I'm flagged due to my travel to rogue countries and refusal to answer questions.
The first time was really stressful and intimidating. Then I did a lot of research and realized that, as a U.S. citizen who has committed no crime, CBP has no power over me other than to delay me for a few hours and look through my stuff and maybe seize my electronics.
If you're a US citizen, you only have to prove that fact to the CBP officer, you don't have to convince him what hotel you stayed at or whether the medical records are your wife's.
Recently, when I'm brought to secondary inspection, they will ask what I was doing abroad, and I will respond by telling them I'm happy to answer any questions about my citizenship but I won't be interrogated as to whether I'm a criminal. Then I sit quietly as they type stuff into their computers for a while and then they will eventually let me go. No interrogation occurs, it's not stressful, it's not embarrassing, it's just an inconvenience. Like being in detention for an hour or two after school.
If asked for your phone or computer passwords, you can decline. You're not required to give those unless they have a court order requiring you to do so.
I agree with the poster who said that their story about someone with the same name being wanted for a murder the day before might be untrue. Cops are allowed to lie. They might have stopped and searched you for a different reason but they don't want you to know the true reason.
You can make an online FOIA request for all documentation about the incident. You'll get the records in about six months, heavily redacted, but they will be interesting to you.
I've been in secondary inspection five times. I'm flagged due to my travel to rogue countries and refusal to answer questions.
The first time was really stressful and intimidating. Then I did a lot of research and realized that, as a U.S. citizen who has committed no crime, CBP has no power over me other than to delay me for a few hours and look through my stuff and maybe seize my electronics.
If you're a US citizen, you only have to prove that fact to the CBP officer, you don't have to convince him what hotel you stayed at or whether the medical records are your wife's.
Recently, when I'm brought to secondary inspection, they will ask what I was doing abroad, and I will respond by telling them I'm happy to answer any questions about my citizenship but I won't be interrogated as to whether I'm a criminal. Then I sit quietly as they type stuff into their computers for a while and then they will eventually let me go. No interrogation occurs, it's not stressful, it's not embarrassing, it's just an inconvenience. Like being in detention for an hour or two after school.
If asked for your phone or computer passwords, you can decline. You're not required to give those unless they have a court order requiring you to do so.