Security questions

Old Jul 21, 2015, 5:07 pm
  #31  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,237
Originally Posted by Often1
POISSON is confusing Customs (CBP) with TSA. The two have nothing to do with each other. It is also incorrect to suggest that one must recheck bags after Customs.

If you are connecting or are on separate tickets but your originating carrier is willing, your bags are checked through to their final destination. You need only drop them after Customs and need not wait at a desk to recheck.

The point here is that your bags are inspected somewhere. If you are connecting to STL, it would not matter so much, but the domestic carrier would have to separately tag and deliver arriving domestic and international bags and arriving passengers at STL would have to be sent to a CBP station. BOI doesn't have CBP, so it would not be a valid connection.

Bottom line is that it's apples and oranges to compare the UK, Schengen or almost any other nation for commercial air purposes.
I don''t think he's confusing CBP and TSA.

In other parts of the world, US>A>Z means you don't see or touch your checked bags until you arrive at Z.

But ...if you fly Z>USarr>USfinal, you have to pick up your bag(s) when you arrive, schlep it/them through customs, and drop the bag(s) off at the recheck baggage belt. Then you have to go pick up your bag(s) again when you arrive at your final destination. Bigger hassle.

There are reasons why it works that way, but there's no denying that it is a bigger hassle for the traveler.
chollie is online now  
Old Jul 21, 2015, 8:32 pm
  #32  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: DFW
Posts: 521
Here's an example of a real hastle.

A French friend was flying from Paris to Tahiti. He had a layover in Los Angeles. Because the US makes EVERYONE go through customs and passport control, regardless if they just have a layover, he had to obtain his bag, go through customs and passport control, then recheck the bag.

Technically, he was not entering the US and his final destination was non-US.

If I flew NY - Frankfurt - somewhere in Africa, I wouldn't be required to touch my checked bag, or show my passport in Frankfurt.
poisson is offline  
Old Jul 28, 2015, 3:28 pm
  #33  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
Originally Posted by poisson
Here's an example of a real hastle.

A French friend was flying from Paris to Tahiti. He had a layover in Los Angeles. Because the US makes EVERYONE go through customs and passport control, regardless if they just have a layover, he had to obtain his bag, go through customs and passport control, then recheck the bag.

Technically, he was not entering the US and his final destination was non-US.

If I flew NY - Frankfurt - somewhere in Africa, I wouldn't be required to touch my checked bag, or show my passport in Frankfurt.
The large majority of people arriving in the US from overseas are ending their trip somewhere in the US. This isn't true for the major European airports. In general, even for the major international hubs in the US, a large portion of passenger departures are domestic.

As an example, look at FRA. 88% of the passengers leaving FRA are headed outside of Germany. (http://www.fraport.com/content/frapo...stics-2013.pdf, see slide 23)

For JFK, international pax represent only 56% (https://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traffic/ATR2013.pdf).

Bottom line, US airports aren't set up for intl-to-intl connections for quite good reason, and reconfiguring them to handle them would be a massive undertaking, particularly since terminals are often carrier-specific, rather than be domestic or international specific. Combine this with the fact that the US doesn't have structured exit controls, and hence no checkpoints to keep people bound for international flights from going back out of the terminal, it's a massive challenge.
cestmoi123 is offline  
Old Jul 28, 2015, 11:14 pm
  #34  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Catania, Sicily/South Jersey (PHL)/Houston, Texas/Red Stick/airborne in-between
Programs: United Global Svs, AA PlatPro, WN RR, AZ/ITA Freccia, Hilton Diam, Bonvoy Gold, Hertz Prez, IHG
Posts: 3,535
Originally Posted by poisson
Here's an example of a real hastle.

A French friend was flying from Paris to Tahiti. He had a layover in Los Angeles. Because the US makes EVERYONE go through customs and passport control, regardless if they just have a layover, he had to obtain his bag, go through customs and passport control, then recheck the bag.

Technically, he was not entering the US and his final destination was non-US.

If I flew NY - Frankfurt - somewhere in Africa, I wouldn't be required to touch my checked bag, or show my passport in Frankfurt.
Some airports in the US allow bags to skip the customs step for int'l to int'l connections. Houston-IAH has one-stop (as do a couple of others) where they only have to do immigration (and still reclear TSA).

For example a friend of mine flew Europe-Houston-Mexico two weeks ago and his bags went straight through and he did not have to pick up in Houston. It is a baby step but more airports are doing it.
FlyingHoustonian is offline  
Old Jul 29, 2015, 4:35 am
  #35  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHL
Programs: AA - Plat, HHonors - Diamond, IHG - Plat, Marriott - Gold, National - Exec, Amtrak - Select, NEXUS
Posts: 1,075
Originally Posted by poisson
Here's an example of a real hastle.

A French friend was flying from Paris to Tahiti. He had a layover in Los Angeles. Because the US makes EVERYONE go through customs and passport control, regardless if they just have a layover, he had to obtain his bag, go through customs and passport control, then recheck the bag.

Technically, he was not entering the US and his final destination was non-US.

If I flew NY - Frankfurt - somewhere in Africa, I wouldn't be required to touch my checked bag, or show my passport in Frankfurt.
Technically, in the eyes of CBP, your friend WAS entering the US and was admitted at LAX. If your friend was inadmissible to the US for some reason, he would have been sent back to France rather than allowed to continue on to Tahiti.

The US does not have a concept of "transit", where one is allowed access to the airport without undergoing immigration/customs for the purpose of taking a subsequent flight to a non-domestic destination.

US CBP has made it the policy that all pax are processed for entry to the US upon first arrival and regardless of ultimate destination. The primary exception is for pre-clearance origins, where border controls are performed prior to departure and the flight is treated as a "domestic" US flight, without CBP or TSA required on arrival.

Yes, it's annoying. But the process is the same at nearly all US airport POEs, so at least you know what to expect and can plan accordingly.
pa3lsvt is offline  
Old Aug 1, 2015, 1:55 pm
  #36  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NYC, USA
Programs: AA EXP 3MM, Lifetime Platinum, Marriott Titanium, HH Gold
Posts: 10,966
When you compare the USA to many overseas airports, yes, it does seem that we are nowhere near as streamlined with International-to-International connections as, say, HKG or SIN or NRT, or anywhere in the Schengen zone. I believe it has to do with a couple of additional things (in addition to mixed domestic/int'l departing pax in the same terminal and the lack of exit border controls in the USA):

The USA is a big country, with lots of domestic flights that can be shorthaul or longhaul. Most major US airports have a substantial number (even vast majority) of domestic connecting passengers, as already noted.

The same thing cannot be said for most of the rest of the world's major airports. HKG/SIN, two of the world's busiest airports, have ZERO domestic flights. Every single passenger transferring at either of these airports is an International-to-International passenger. EVERY flight is an international flight.

Japan, the UK, and most Schengen countries are small (even tiny) by comparison to the USA, with many FEWER domestic flights. So, most connecting passengers are International-to-International, and they can be kept isolated in a sterile part of the airport and not need to be processed into the transfer country. And, it is easy to separate any actual domestic flights into their own terminal. Schengen airports have built separate terminals or portions of terminals for intra-Schengen flights that are technically international but do not involve passport control. Again, the countries that house most of the world's major airports are SMALL countries (geographically speaking). Of course, there are exceptions such as Russia and China and Australia. But I'm generalizing to make a point.


2) Most air travelers in the USA are domestic air travelers. Again, the USA is a big country. The vast majority of leisure and business travelers do not fly internationally anywhere near as often as leisure or business travelers who are based at HKG or SIN or LHR or NRT. American travelers don't have to fly internationally. They can have a beach or ski vacation, or cruise to Alaska or vacation in Hawaii, or go to Miami, or ice fishing in Maine, all without ever crossing an international border. The USA has cities where the economy is based on finance, others based on tourism, others based on entertainment (LAS), others based on industry. In short, you can find basically anything the average person might want, without leaving the country. So, most Americans choose not to travel internationally. In fact, the figures are staggering....only 36% of eligible U.S. citizens have been issued passports!

(Compare that to the average middle-class Londoner, Hong Konger or Singaporean.....he or she might leave the country two or three times a month, just for leisure/weekend getaways! It is not uncommon for business travelers in Europe to attend meetings in 3-4 countries in the course of 24-48 hours!)
ESpen36 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.