username

We have been lucky to not have had any major incidents on US operated carriers during takeoff and landing for quite a few years. It seems we are getting complacent.

In the last 5 flights I took the last 7 days, I have observed:

• Guy put his computer bag behind his legs during takeoff and landing (after FA told him to put it under the seat on takeoff and FA did not bother to enforce rule on landing)
• UA in-flight sales machine rolled all the way down to the front of the plane on landing
• Guy argued his Chromebook (ultrabook style) was not a notebook computer and wanted to use it during taxi/takeoff/landing to watch his movie

It just seems people don't quite understand why a tidy cabin during takeoff and landing is important. The whole rule change where people can have their tablets going during takeoff and landing seems to also create a hazard if there is an emergency.

Does it take something bad to happen for us to pay attention to these things again?

Thanks.

Mats

I think it's about "choosing your battles." There are so many rules that flight attendants have to enforce, and they're not the police. If someone wants to use the bathroom while the seatbelt sign is on, the crew will sometimes remind the passenger, but they can't really tie him or her down.

Lots of people "smuggle" purses and little bags beside their seats at bulkheads. Many will leave their seats a little reclined or tray tables down and just put them upright for the "compliance check" only to recline them thereafter. What can the crew do? It's not worth calling the police about it. Sure there are fines from the FAA, but we're talking about issues that happen on just about every flight.

The laptops bother me. I once wrote here about the ethics of asking another passenger to put away her laptop during a profoundly turbulent landing. But I came to the conclusion that she would suffer a traumatic brain injury more so than I would.

And we all hear the unbuckling of seatbelts before the seatbelt sign is off. There is absolutely a danger of a sudden jerk or movement, but there isn't a great way to stop this. A crew can beg and beg, but passengers are unlikely to care.

I think the best thing to do is lead by example. Follow the rules, pay attention to the safety demo, stay seated until the plane is actually at the gate. That's probably the best we can do. If someone poses a clear threat to me--if I'm in a window seat and his or her tray table is down during short final, I would be inclined to say something. But that's about it.

The seatbelt sign is a source of frustration too. It's a "choose your battles" situation as well. I've had to get up when the sign is still on if I feel that the turbulence is light enough or non-existent. I know that it's at my own risk. And I take cues: if the crew are buckled up, obviously I'm not going to risk it. But sometimes you just have to take the risk and be careful.

Sadly, baggage fees have an adverse effect on safety. People carry huge bags on board (they did this before; now there is an even greater incentive.) So I think the biggest threat is being hit in the head by something massive and heavy in an overhead locker.

The other problem I have is that US carriers allow window shades to be closed during taxi, takeoff, and landing. In fact, they encourage this to keep planes cooler in the summer. This defies common sense to me because I'd rather know if something outside is on fire. But it's one more thing that the crew would have to enforce, and they have too much to handle already.

My view is to lead by example. I'm careful about my bags, make sure that I have a clear way to an exit if it's necessary, wait until the seatbelt sign is off before standing up, and I watch the safety demo every time, even though I have it memorised. Let other people take a cue from those of us who fly frequently and care about our safety and the safety of those around us. We can't depend on reduced staffing loads of flight attendants to do that work for us.

exerda

On Chromebooks, aren't they basically tablets? I can understand given people can watch movies on their iPads...

username

I was afraid I would get ridicule from others on my posting so I am glad I did not - yet

The guy's Chromebook looked like an ultrabook - it has a keyboard and all that. So, I think it is closer to a small notebook computer than an iPad. Of course, he tried to put it in the seatback pocket (he was on the Y bulkhead of the CRJ-700) and the FA made him stow that (and FA said it was the 3rd time he asked him to do it).

I too don't like the fact that there are no rules on the window shades. Some regionals seem to have that rules but most don't. The regionals seem to be more strict on the rules like no computer in the seatback pocket - probably because space is more crammed?

The sad thing is we seem to be in an era where defying rules is cool but people are too ignorant to know the rules they defy can help save lives in an emergency and their acts can kill people.

SeriouslyLost

As someone else said, it's all about picking the battles. US carriers don't require shades to be up during landing/take off and that's a safety threat in the event of an emergency during those times. Same for reclining seats.

Basically, the "we're here for your safety and safety first" is just so much lip service. US carriers only want to get as many people from A to B and not have too many complaints along the way. They genuinely don't care beyond that.

cdn1

welcome to the 'me me me me me....' world of humans

catandmouse

I've been on a plane which did an aborted takeoff and now understand why you need to stow items for takeoff and landing. In this case, the only items that weren't stowed were blankets and pillows (I guess the FAs had done their work diligently), but they really did fly from the back of the cabin to the front. I for one would not like to be hit by someone's laptop, netbook, ultrabook or whatever on the back of my head under such circumstances and do stow the items at least for the takeoff roll and touchdown. For heaven's sake it's only 30 seconds of your life each time.

Mats

Maybe I'm too intellectual about this, but I think it might help if flight attendants offered a rationale. A few seconds of explanation might offer education rather than authority. And it might encourage passengers to be more active stakeholders in everyone's safety.

Let's take an example: you're not allowed to put anything on a business class ottoman during takeoff and landing, and there is a placard advising this. One purser made repeated announcements, "You must read the sign in front of you!" It was a lousy and ineffective technique. He should have just walked through the cabin and said, "I know your purse is probably really light, but we found that even small things can fly up and really hit you or someone else very easily."

In other words, shift the emphasis to safety, not a rule.

Flight attendants easily fall back on "FAA" and "TSA" regulations, not an explanation. I think we've all heard an exasperated "Ladies and gentleman, this is an active taxiway! Federal law..." Wouldn't that announcement be better with, "I know we're not moving right now, but we can move suddenly, and we don't want anyone to get hurt. So please take your seats and buckle up." It's empathetic and reasonable.

As I noted recently flying on KLM and Turkish Airlines, there are far fewer announcements. I didn't have to listen to a purser read through the book about the electronics policy, security policy, credit card policy, alliance benefits, lavatory locations, etc. First, these items could be integrated into the safety video (some already are), and others could be shortened or deleted as much as the law allows.

I feel like the announcements are an "I told you so" plan. If someone violates a rule, they can say, "That's why we make that announcement." Yeah, nobody was listening because you talked about way too many rules.

The law requires an audible announcement about seatbelts. Okay. But thanks to the wonderful captains who just say, "seatbelts" when switching the sign on. It's far more useful than, "Ladies and gentleman, the Captain..." All of that extra verbiage detracts from the one operative word.

A friend of mine said that she cringes whenever hearing the word, "Ma'am." It's so often used in a setting like an aircraft cabin, where it is about to be followed by escalating stress. "Ma'am. MA'AM. MA'AM! I need you to stow your purse." It's not about how "I need you to..." it's about how we don't want this woman to get hurt."

The forward cabin lavatory issue has the same problem. I've sat through entire flights full of "Ma'am! MA'AM! Sir! SIR! SIR!" because passengers were looking for the lavatory on the wrong side or using the wrong door near the flight deck. Then you get to hear, "It is TSA policy!" "It is our enhanced security policy!"

This one has some easy fixes. First, one could just put a map on the seatbacks with the lavatory locations (just for the forward cabins on widebody planes), as well as the location of the "lavatory occupied" sign (most people don't seem to know that this exists.)

Or an even better option would be to have the purser point this out as he or she introduces himself to each passenger. A lot of pursers stopped the introductions, but it would work so well. "Keep an eye on this sign here; it will tell you if the restroom is available. And the restroom is right over this way. It gets cramped in front of the door, so just take a seat until the green light is on and the restroom is available." I dare an American airline to try this. See if it relieves the stress and traffic a bit.

Schmurrr

I agree. If that doesn't work, show the clip from "Flight" in which the flight attendant is thrown against the overhead bin and seriously injured.

Speaking of rationales and rules, when did it become FAA regulations that limit pax to one carry-on and one personal item? And shouldn't that limitation really be about volume of items, not number of items? If you can fit six tiny bags under the seat as readily as you can fit one backpack there, isn't that good enough?

mikeef

Hey, you're posting in TS&S, so it can be arranged.

Agree with you on projectiles and shades. Take-off and landing are the most dangerous times of any flight.

Mike

Sousaphil

How exactly are window shades a significant safety concern? It's no more difficult to open the window in the event of an emergency than it is to unbuckle my seat belt after the plane has stopped. It seems like a very narrow edge case where this would possibly negatively impact passenger/crew safety.

There is substantially much more risk with carry-ons in general, but we will not see those banned.

username

This is exactly the reason why Mats said rationale would help (and I agree). The first thing BEFORE opening an exit is to observe if there is a fire outside. If the window shades are not up, one might either take some extra time to open the shade and observe OR open the exit to a fire.