FriendlySkies

Oy

jtodd

He could make a Three Stooges episode out of normal procedures at the TSA/DHS. It appears all they do is make up new stupid rules, and then don't even bother to record or remember the rules they made up. Wait, that's what the employees do at the airports as well. I guess they do lead by example.

goalie

Bolding mine: Falls right in there with some TSO's making up rules on the spot-Really makes me feel safe

Please do not insult The Trinity (aka The Stooges) by referring to them and the TSA in the same sentence

sbedelman

I got a call back from the TSA Ombudsman this morning. He's researched and so far as he can tell there is not nor has there ever been a TSA rule requiring passengers to stay in their ticketed cabin.

There was at one time a rule requiring passengers to stay seated for the last hour of international inbound flights but that has been rescinded.

If people can report their experiences, especially recent ones (the last year or so) it would be most helpful since my new friend is going to keep at this and I'd particularly like to report what is being promulgated in the TSA's name.

Pilots have wide discretion as to how they run their ship but if they are representing that something is government directive when that is not the case its a whole different matter.

Either way I'm going to try and get to the bottom of this if possible.

Maxwell Smart

I don't believe there is actually any law or FAA regulation regarding this; I've noticed that the announcements on this tend to say things like "security policy requires that...", and kind of make it sound like it's a government regulation as opposed to an airline rule.

N965VJ

Keep in mind that some "airline rules" can be in the Operations Specifications, signed off by the FAA, which would be something of a de facto government regulation.

You want to go where?

From my experience, this announcement about staying in your ticketed cabin seems to be US airlines only. BA, AF, LH, NH do not make this announcement, UA, DL do. This isn't to say that the European airlines won't make an effort to keep you from moving up in the world, but they don't worry about First and Business wandering around coach.

sbedelman

Once I determine whether or not there is an actual DHS/TSA rule then I'll call the airlines and ask about their policies and whether they are internal or derived from a governmental directive and if so which one.

Mats

I think it would make more sense for the airlines to use the same language they use for fastened seat belts. They usually say something like, "It is Continental's policy that you remain seated with your seatbelt fastened even if the fasten seat belt sign is turned off."

Fair enough. The policy makes sense, protects passengers, and is presented as the airline's policy, not a reference to a non-existent law.

It would be just as easy to say, "It is Continental's policy that use the lavatory in your ticketed cabin." It's honest, enforceable, but it's not a lie.

I think all of us get equally frustrated by airline crew members who cite regulations that do not exist. The carrier is welcome to make its own policies and procedures, but they shouldn't imply that a law exists when it does not.

If we now have proof from the DHS that there is no law, I think we can safely complain to our respective airlines that they are attempting to enforce a fictitious law, and should change their announcements accordingly.

sbedelman

It ain't over yet. All the TSA Ombudsman has said is he hasn't found such a rule. Until he does further due diligence to confirm that I'd hold off from any final conclusion.

Also the issue I'm dealing with is broader than the use of rest rooms. The announcement I'm reacting to is one that prohibits any movement beyond one's own cabin.

What makes it an issue for me is that because of a lack of award space my family is likely to be book in both F and C. I'd like to understand if its really correct that if there is a problem with one of the kids we will be prohibited from contact with them. If its true an F passenger is barred from the C cabin that is a genuine problem for us.

sbedelman

The local office of the TSA called me back and says there is no such rule from TSA/DHS. However they suggested that flight security while onboard the airplane is also governed by the FAA and I should contact them to see if what pilots are announcing is derived from one of their directives.

The search continues...

TheRoadie

There was a recent discussion in the Delta forum about cross-cabin visits, specifically with kids involved. Delta looks like it forbids up-visits from Y to C, due to the disruption factor, and one FA had a melt-down during a flight where there was repeated curtain-crossing going on. But the "official" word seems to be that C to Y down-visiting was fine.

CubsFanJohn

On my last flight from MUC-ATL they did tell everyone to use their own ticketed cabin bathrooms.

sbedelman

Bathrooms and up-visits to a higher cabin I understand. Those are airline rules and have nothing to do with security.

But if anyone is on a flight where they announce passengers must remain in their own cabin or the like I'd very much appreciate hearing about it. At one point captains were claiming this was a mandated security rule. It seems to have been most common on international flights inbound to the US but not exclusive to those.

exilencfc

Simples, if all the passengers rush to the front/back the plane will become unbalanced and crash. That group of fat people who say they're going to a health farm? Terrorists the lot of them