First-Time Opt-Out: What Exactly To Do/Ask?

Old Jun 21, 2011, 5:11 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by divemistressofthedark
...using a TSA-unfriendly lock (without a keyhole on the bottom or TSA printed anywhere on it.) They're not that easy to find in the size you want, unfortunately...[/url]
Not sure what kind of carryon you prefer (given you may carry your regulator or other life-critical equipment) or where you shop, but I find that locksmith shops and safe dealers usually offer a generous selection of locks (and prices), as well as experienced, specialist personnel who give good advice. Even relatively small towns usually have at least one locksmith.

Members of the that trade are expected to adhere to serious ethical standards. I trust real locksmith employees more than random help at big-box stores that carry locks and make keys, which isn't to say they're perfect.

For me it's also a plus that these stores are usually locally-owned, so what I spend there goes directly to providing a service I've liked and into the local economy, rather than an online giant who may harvest my personal info unless I pay cash.

If you use a standard frame-and-fabric wheelie, unethical screeners determined to get into it (or convince LEOs to find PC) will just use a blade; I see little point in using a lock that's more secure or costly than zipper pulls or the bag itself.

Combo locks are usually low quality, but eliminate the need to carry keys which may alarm a WTMD, get lost, or be confiscated. At Doane's in Manhattan, and Pep Boys on a rural highway, I've seen cheap combination locks that are so unusual (for example, an unlabeled four-way directional paddle instead of numbered wheels) they would probably baffle anyone without lock skills, and the solution stays safely in your brain.
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 1:41 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by Vidiot

I think it will probably be difficult to record the interaction for my own protection, as much as I'd like to: my phone or Flip would probably wind up with my carry-on belongings and separated from me. Pity. (And much like other posters here, I hate that I'm dreading my ritual goosing from the government, when alll I'm doing is visiting family on a tight schedule.)
You might consider getting a pair of these: http://www.spyville.com/spy-camera-eyeglasses.html.
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 2:04 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by divemistressofthedark
Great idea. Wish I'd read this before my last opt out last week...Also, for the OP - before you even get to the checkpoint, make sure your wallet, jewelry etc are locked into your carryon using a TSA-unfriendly lock (without a keyhole on the bottom or TSA printed anywhere on it.) They're not that easy to find in the size you want, unfortunately - try here: http://amzn.to/lvXZBA
Luggage locks that aren't TSA-friendly are not at all easy to find! But, for our carry-ons, we just damaged the TSA keyholes of our triple zipper locks in a way that doesn't damage the rest of the lock. (Stuff the tip of a toothpick or some bits of wire in there, then fill the reservoir with some superglue and/or gorilla glue.) I don't bother locking the checked bags at all.

http://www.amazon.com/Travel-Accesso...6&sr=8-1-fkmr2
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Old Jun 22, 2011, 9:09 pm
  #34  
 
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Hey, that's a good idea, the Gorilla Glue. Thanks!

I do have a Pelican case (thick, cutproof plastic) I occasionally take on dive trips - only thing is, it's pretty heavy. I also have a hard-sided Porter case that I put a bag strap around (also with a TSA-unfriendly lock). Neither of these have a zipper, which IMO is the weakest point on a standard 22".

I really do need to get a backpack with zipper pulls that are lockable. The ones I have now close with only nylon cords, which would take three seconds to cut through.

In any event I figure anyone determined will get through my locks. Just trying to prevent the surreptitious snatch 'n grab while my stuff lies on the X-ray belt and I'm trapped in some netherworld waiting for my grope.

The most important point here, IMO: never, under any circumstances, put anything loose into the bin or into one of those doggie bowls, especially if you're planning on opting out.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 12:41 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by HSVTSO Dean
raising of the hand along the gracillus until it comes into contact with the epidermal layer over the pubic bone, if you prefer
Originally Posted by nachtnebel
Again, as close to the genitals as possible without actually touching, but with the likelihood of at least incidental touch.
No - your interpretation of his statement is incorrect. Dean said that the procedure is that the hand contacts the epidermal layer over the pubic bone. But what does that mean?

I will not link to the wikipedia article for vulva, because the photos are not safe for work. But here is a quote: "The soft mound at the front of the vulva is formed by fatty tissue covering the pubic bone, and is called the mons pubis." Here is a youtube video that is relatively safe for work - an anatomy teacher pointing and naming things on a plastic model.

For males, it is a little different: this similar youtube video is relatively safe for work. There isn't really an epidermal layer over the pubic bone, rather the testes are nestled there and then covered with a scrotum. So traveling up the gracilis until one contacts epidermis covering the pubic bone can only mean touching the scrotum.

HSVTSO Dean stated that the process requires contact with the "epidermis covering the pubic bone", but as the anatomy teacher clearly shows, this would correspond to the "vulva" and "mons pubis" for females or "scrotum" for males.

It reminds me of a friend I had in elementary school that would try to provoke other kids by saying, "Your epidermis is showing!"

Originally Posted by iceman77_7
I prefer that explanation better than "resistance", but you'll be running into A LOT of resistance if you're trying to get to the origin of the gracilis.
<snort> Understatement of the year. I strained my gracilis, and what my chiropractor had to do to release the muscle near the origin was about the closest thing to rape I have ever experienced. Thank goodness she's a woman.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 2:01 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by janetdoe
I will not link to the wikipedia article for vulva, because the photos are not safe for work. But here is a quote: "The soft mound at the front of the vulva is formed by fatty tissue covering the pubic bone, and is called the mons pubis."
Yes and I would like for all the TSA Screeners on here to go take a look at those pictures and tell me again that a Female TSA screeners hand does not come in contact with the more intimate parts of a female passengers body. Because even when a woman is standing with her feet shoulder width apart. A TSA screeners hand is going to end up right in the graphic place those pictures depict on most female passengers. It can't be avoided. There is not much space in that area for there not to be any contact with the more intimate parts of a woman's body when the hand goes up the inner thigh until it meets what TSA wants to refer to as resistance in that area on the body. The TSA screener wearing gloves and the female passenger wearing clothes does not change the fact that the female passenger definately knows what is being touched on her body when that hand goes up the inner thigh until it meets resistance and makes contact with her intimate body parts.

Last edited by Lara21; Jun 23, 2011 at 2:25 am
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Old Aug 26, 2011, 4:21 pm
  #37  
 
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How Much Will You Tolerate?

IF I were an "OPT-OUT" the most important thing in my mind would be to know much I will tolerate before I'd say: "Enough, I cannot take this I will not fly"!
To my way of thinking if you don't have a limit set in your mind then you are accepting of whatever they may do. Set a Limit! Don't be abused!

Note* I do not believe the $10K/fine/jail threat. It's very surprising that it's only been threatened but not used.
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Old Sep 2, 2011, 10:56 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.5.0.138 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)



I respectfully disagree. "Resistance" and most of their canned speech was designed to desensitize the clerks. The term was invented to also desensitize you and me, but that's not its primary purpose. The more frequently we can confront this tactic and make a clerk, one at a time and one frisk at a time, confront what they are doing and touching, the closer we become to winning this war.
Bingo.

Nothing more than the TSA's version of Milgram asking his participants to "complete the experiment."
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Old Nov 23, 2011, 7:08 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by Vidiot
Thanks, everyone, for all the advice.

As it turns out, shockingly, I didn't have to go through a scanner at RDU. I wound up in the far right lane (Terminal 2 checkpoint), and the MMW was blocked off. Three people ahead of me, they unblocked it, but the MMW's so much slower that the TSO in front of it just waved me through the adjacent WTMD. TSOs at RDU were surly and barely communicative, but not downright hostile...perhaps that's because I never had the chance or the need to opt out.

Next flight is through MSY, so we'll see about that one...
You were lucky with RDU. I have cut my flying way down this year (275k miles on AA in 2010 and 45k in 2011) due to TSA at RDU. I have been Exec Plat on AA for the last 8 years. AA is losing tens of thousands of dollars directly due to TSA. I hate RDU TSA, they are the most arrogant, rude, abusive TSA in the country in my experience.
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 6:46 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by tcody
You were lucky with RDU. I have cut my flying way down this year (275k miles on AA in 2010 and 45k in 2011) due to TSA at RDU. I have been Exec Plat on AA for the last 8 years. AA is losing tens of thousands of dollars directly due to TSA. I hate RDU TSA, they are the most arrogant, rude, abusive TSA in the country in my experience.
Maybe that's why they are going Chapter 11?

I agree with the sentiment about RDU, but in my experience it seems to be the small airports have the most aggressive and least sensical policies. For example: BDL requires you to show your boarding pass after the initial check just before you pass the WMT. What's the purpose when you've already had your boarding pass checked? And all you have to say is "electronic" indicating it's on your mobile phone that's in the X-ray machine and they let you pass.
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 8:52 am
  #41  
 
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Talking Opting Out

Originally Posted by baliktad

"Having opted out many times at several airports, this is the action that consistently causes me the most grief. I believe this is because TSO's do not receive any guidance or training about this aspect of checkpoint screening."

They are all trained.

"They know they have to change their gloves when asked, and will begrudgingly do so if you press the issue"

They change the gloves for each passenger. They do not pay for them, so what do they care?

"but ensuring your items are safely within your eyesight is rarely, if ever, acknowledged by front line TSO's."

Your belongings should always be within visual range. If not, then nicely ask them to be. Do you think a TSO wants to have an investigation done on them. Plus, have you looked around... CCTV everywhere.

"The best way to handle this is as a statement, not a request."

The "best" way? Ask kindly.

"Remember, TSO's are not autonomous beings with the capability to reason and acquiesce to logical arguments."

WOW. I know lots of retired senior military and LEO's who work at TSA for extra cash. WHY would you demean those you do not know?

"They are creatures of rote habit and can get in quite a tizzy if you don't respond exactly the same way everyone else ahead of you has."

Maybe they are required to do things a certain way to protect the airplane from blowing up at 40,000 feet.

"So when a TSO directs you to "stand here" and your belongings are not in your line of sight, don't ask for your belongings to be brought to you (they don't care)."

"They don't care?" WOW. Again, painting everyone with the same brush. Maybe, you should saying something like "I'd like my belongings to be me with me or where I can see them, please." DO YOU REALLY think they want to listen you complain?

"Just state "I'm going to stand here where I can see my belongings." Remain calm and do not waver."

"Do not wavier."

Okay. Then would you be violating:

1. 1540.107 Submission to screening and inspection.
2. 1540.109 Prohibition against interference with screening personnel.

One can be fined civilly up to $11,000 per violation.

"Many TSO's will immediately resort to an aggressive offense, yelling that you must stand in a particular location or threatening to call law enforcement."

"Yelling" at you? Really? I am sure you have reported this behavior to TSA. (http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/civilr...complaint.shtm)

"Remember that they hold no power of detainment so they cannot force you to stand anywhere."

Correct. TSA TSO's do not detain anyone. Then again:

1. 1540.107 Submission to screening and inspection.
2. 1540.109 Prohibition against interference with screening personnel.

One can be fined civilly up to $11,000 per violation.

"If you remain calm and don't flee the checkpoint, they won't have anything to hold against you."

1. 1540.107 Submission to screening and inspection.
2. 1540.109 Prohibition against interference with screening personnel.

One can be fined civilly up to $11,000 per violation.

In the "end" you will not be allowed through the checkpoint without being properly screened.

"Do not back down in your stance, regardless of what they tell you. Here are some of their tactics:"

"- "Don't worry, we have cameras here" -> The cameras are to protect the TSA, not your belongings."

It appears you do not know what your are talking about. CCTV has been used as evidence against and for passengers, as well as others who work at the airport.

"A thief can steal your stuff in seconds; tapes, if made available at all, won't do you good hours, days, or even weeks later."

True enough. A thief (passengers, as well as those who "work" at the airport) can be pretty fast.

I guess you forgot to add that TSA investigators are the ones who have broken up major theft rings inside the airport (Airline baggage handlers - NOT TSA employees).

I think you also forgot to add TSA investigators have broken up theft rings (NOT TSA employees) who steal bags at the baggage carousals.

I think you forgot...

"- "Your stuff will be fine." -> The screener isn't personally watching it, so this is an outright fabrication."

I do not know, but maybe they said that because they know there is another TSO and CCTV observing your belongings. Regardless, you have the right to be able to observe your belongings. JUST ask.

"The TSA accepts no liability for lost, stolen, or damaged items at a checkpoint."

Not true. If TSA damages your property, file a claim. Just like in any other governmant location. If YOU lost it... why should we tax payers be responsible? TSA is not there to guard your property. WHICH is why YOU should keep an eye on it. Can you spell "CCTV" if your property is stolen?

"On average, one TSO per week is fired for theft of passenger belongings."

PLEASE PROVIDE YOUR SOURCE OF INFORMATION

"Regardless of what the TSA says, disobeying them is not a crime.

1. 1540.107 Submission to screening and inspection.
2. 1540.109 Prohibition against interference with screening personnel.

One can be fined civilly up to $11,000 per violation.

"The anger and hostility directed towards you is intended to make you comply."

It appears, by your writing, that you run into a lot of angry and mean TSA folks. I would suggest you start getting names and badge numbers, then post ALL of them.

"Since you know you're not a terrorist, their aggression isn't making anyone any safer."

Interesting. "YOU know you are not a terrorist." Shall we have a "NON-TERRORIST" lane? No, wait. Since there are more decent passengers than terrorists... let's have a "TERRORISTS ONLY" LANE.

WONDERFUL IDEA. I guess DHS has been on thier butt for 10 years. WHY did they not think of this before? FIRE THEM ALL!

"Stand your ground calmly and peacefully, and escalate to a supervisor as necessary.

Calmly and peacefully. EXACTLY!
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 9:01 am
  #42  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Cool keys alarm a WTMD

Originally Posted by YCTTSFM
Combo locks are usually low quality, but eliminate the need to carry keys which may alarm a WTMD, get lost, or be confiscated.
You cannot take "keys" through the WTMD. Keys are not confiscated.

Me. A MSDT
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 9:05 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Lara21
Yes and I would like for all the TSA Screeners on here to go take a look at those pictures and tell me again that a Female TSA screeners hand does not come in contact with the more intimate parts of a female passengers body.
According to Open Sources, the hand goes up until it stops. If one "opts out," one should expect it.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 2:45 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Dumberthan
I guess you forgot to add that TSA investigators are the ones who have broken up major theft rings inside the airport (Airline baggage handlers - NOT TSA employees).

I think you also forgot to add TSA investigators have broken up theft rings (NOT TSA employees) who steal bags at the baggage carousals.
Cite?


Originally Posted by Dumberthan
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Master Scuba Diver Trainer?
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 10:37 pm
  #45  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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I mostly travel through Denver and Seattle. I opt out every time I fly (several times a month) and have rarely had a problem. The TSO has always asked me to identify my belongings and then carried them to where the pat-down will take place. I absolutely agree that you must keep your belongings in sight at all times. Every pat-down I've had has been professional, and the TSOs have always been respectful. I don't think you have anything to worry about. DON'T be a wiseguy by offering to tip the screener when he's done!

George
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