First-Time Opt-Out: What Exactly To Do/Ask?

Old Jun 9, 2011, 11:44 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Vidiot
What's the purpose of this? Is it to ensure they're using a clean swab, or is it to make sure that the new, fresh gloves don't have some weird kind of false positive?
Its so they can't put on a pair of contaminated gloves and force you to a private room for a personal grope.

Also, the TSA types here are likely to chime in and say none of this happens, that we're all over reacting and have an agenda. This is false. There are documented cases of retaliation, genital groping, false explosive hits, etc.

Protect yourself from the government.
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 11:51 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
I respectfully disagree. "Resistance" and most of their canned speech was designed to desensitize the clerks. The term was invented to also desensitize you and me, but that's not its primary purpose. The more frequently we can confront this tactic and make a clerk, one at a time and one frisk at a time, confront what they are doing and touching, the closer we become to winning this war.
With which part do you disagree? That it's no stupider than anything else taking place at the C/P?
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 12:16 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by G_Wolf
With which part do you disagree? That it's no stupider than anything else taking place at the C/P?
...not questioning the clerk about the definition of "resistance." I believe that this is a vital part of any opt-out frisking encounter. You don't need to get in a clerk's face about it. all you have to do it to press him/her to tell you what body parts, by anatomically correct name, they are going to touch and not touch. My personal experience and observations are that the clerks are instructed not to repeat the name of the body part or the term "genitals." He/she will quickly call over a supervisor. The supervisor will immediately deflect the conversation by asking two well-rehearsed questions:

1. Do you want a private screening?
2. Do you intend to complete the screening process?

So, you are going to have to keep pressing your question. It's amazing how well-trained they all are on this aspect of Security Theatre! Every once in a while, you will get a supervisor to bust a gasket. I fully understand that everyone is not prepared or interested in a confrontation. I accept that, but, everytime we do nothing, we send the message that silence is consent.
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 1:12 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by Vidiot
--if unsuccessful, calmly say "I opt out."
I don't even do that. I don't acknowledge the agent who decides your fate and just walk through the metal detector. I then say nope to the agent behind the metal detector.
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 1:25 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by Vidiot
What's the purpose of this? Is it to ensure they're using a clean swab, or is it to make sure that the new, fresh gloves don't have some weird kind of false positive?
The bolded part. When/if they swab the gloves after the patdown, they should be using yet another clean, out of the tube swab.
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 2:02 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by prushing
I don't even do that. I don't acknowledge the agent who decides your fate and just walk through the metal detector. I then say nope to the agent behind the metal detector.
On my latest SDOO at DFW, when the TSA employee started to direct me to the MMW box, I just scowled and shook my head before she could complete the motion. I then took a step toward the WTMD. She apparently didn't feel like making a big deal about it and I went thru unmolested.
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 6:42 pm
  #22  
 
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Just a thought...

Has anyone ever requested a TSA screener to first demonstrate the enhanced pat down technique on their own body?
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 7:27 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
...not questioning the clerk about the definition of "resistance." I believe that this is a vital part of any opt-out frisking encounter. You don't need to get in a clerk's face about it. all you have to do it to press him/her to tell you what body parts, by anatomically correct name, they are going to touch and not touch. My personal experience and observations are that the clerks are instructed not to repeat the name of the body part or the term "genitals." He/she will quickly call over a supervisor. The supervisor will immediately deflect the conversation by asking two well-rehearsed questions:

1. Do you want a private screening?
2. Do you intend to complete the screening process?

So, you are going to have to keep pressing your question. It's amazing how well-trained they all are on this aspect of Security Theatre! Every once in a while, you will get a supervisor to bust a gasket. I fully understand that everyone is not prepared or interested in a confrontation. I accept that, but, everytime we do nothing, we send the message that silence is consent.
I guess I don't see the point of hammering them on it. I don't give a crap what they call it. I care more about what they're actually doing.
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 7:29 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by Laguna Annie
Has anyone ever requested a TSA screener to first demonstrate the enhanced pat down technique on their own body?
We're specifically directed to not do that.

The absolute first step of the Standard Pat-Down, no matter what, is to get a fresh pair of gloves.

(Note that this is the Standard Pat-Down - not the Targeted Standard Pat-Down. For the purposes of how procedures operate, they're two entirely different things.)

We're specifically directed to demonstrate the motions of the pat-down (specifically the back of the hands across the buttocks; back of the hands down either side of the zipper on the front of the trousers; and the inside of the leg where one hand starts on the hip and the other on the thigh, and the raising of the hand until it meets body resistance -- or, raising of the hand along the gracillus until it comes into contact with the epidermal layer over the pubic bone, if you prefer) in the air, rather than on our own person, so that the gloves remain uncontaminated. The idea is that, when the ETD test is performed, the only thing that the gloves could have on them is from the passenger.
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 7:53 pm
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by HSVTSO Dean
We're specifically directed to not do that.

The absolute first step of the Standard Pat-Down, no matter what, is to get a fresh pair of gloves.

(Note that this is the Standard Pat-Down - not the Targeted Standard Pat-Down. For the purposes of how procedures operate, they're two entirely different things.)

We're specifically directed to demonstrate the motions of the pat-down (specifically the back of the hands across the buttocks; back of the hands down either side of the zipper on the front of the trousers; and the inside of the leg where one hand starts on the hip and the other on the thigh, and the raising of the hand until it meets body resistance -- or, raising of the hand along the gracillus until it comes into contact with the epidermal layer over the pubic bone, if you prefer) in the air, rather than on our own person, so that the gloves remain uncontaminated. The idea is that, when the ETD test is performed, the only thing that the gloves could have on them is from the passenger.
Saving this...so spd is opt out, targeted spd is resolution or...
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Old Jun 9, 2011, 8:28 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by nachtnebel
Saving this...so spd is opt out, targeted spd is resolution or...
Yes, and no.

Standard Pat-Down is for opt-out of the WBI, it's also for resolving alarms from the WTMD that can't be resolved by divesting more metal, it's also for, like, when a person has a pace-maker implanted.

Targeted Standard Pat-Down is far more specific. Like... say you come through with a baggy sweater on. The TSO would perform a pat-down of the upper body everywhere the sweater is loose on you - it's targeted. Same for baggy pants, only in that case it would be your legs that receive the pat-down and not the upper body. As I understand what Bob's said on the Blog, it's also for clearing anomalies from the WBI device. Like, say, there's an anomaly on your arm - your arm will be patted down. It's a "targeted search."

(Previously, this was called a "bulk-item pat-down," and still is by many TSOs.)


The Resolution Pat-Down is something else entirely, used, in my observations for ETD alarms on the passenger (such as from the ETD of a TSO's hands following a Standard Pat-Down). It is, literally, an alarm "resolution" procedure.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 12:25 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by HSVTSO Dean
specifically the back of the hands across the buttocks; back of the hands down either side of the zipper on the front of the trousers; and the inside of the leg where one hand starts on the hip and the other on the thigh, and the raising of the hand until it meets body resistance -- or, raising of the hand along the gracillus until it comes into contact with the epidermal layer over the pubic bone, if you prefer.
Thanks for the clarification on the targetted patdown.

So, wrt SOP, the screener slides his/her hands (back of hands) over the contour of the buttocks, down the groin getting as close as you can to the male/female genitals with good likelihood of at least incidental touch, but going down the length of the pubic area all the same.

The screener then puts the outside hand on the hip, then the inside hand on the inner thigh, then moves that hand up the gracillous, which is the muscle you can feel there, leading right up to the (pubic bone as per your post). With the front of the hands, to obtain a complete feel of that area. Again, as close to the genitals as possible without actually touching, but with the likelihood of at least incidental touch.

So the screener is feeling over the pubic area down the length of the groin. Then up to the crotch. Yet, this procedure is held to be harmless because it is "not touching genitals" as if that fact makes it less invasive. This is "not touching the genitals" just like Bill Clinton's escapade with Lewinsky was "not sex".

And this procedure is performed on young women, young men, girls, boys, old men, and old women not suspected of any crime.

Last edited by nachtnebel; Jun 10, 2011 at 12:30 am
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 12:29 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by HSVTSO Dean
We're specifically directed to not do that.

The absolute first step of the Standard Pat-Down, no matter what, is to get a fresh pair of gloves.
Can we insist that it comes from the box rather than the TSO's pocket?

We're specifically directed to demonstrate the motions of the pat-down or, raising of the hand along the gracillus until it comes into contact with the epidermal layer over the pubic bone, if you prefer)
I prefer that explanation better than "resistance", but you'll be running into A LOT of resistance if you're trying to get to the origin of the gracilis.
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Old Jun 21, 2011, 3:34 pm
  #29  
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Thanks, everyone, for all the advice.

As it turns out, shockingly, I didn't have to go through a scanner at RDU. I wound up in the far right lane (Terminal 2 checkpoint), and the MMW was blocked off. Three people ahead of me, they unblocked it, but the MMW's so much slower that the TSO in front of it just waved me through the adjacent WTMD. TSOs at RDU were surly and barely communicative, but not downright hostile...perhaps that's because I never had the chance or the need to opt out.

Next flight is through MSY, so we'll see about that one...
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Old Jun 21, 2011, 4:12 pm
  #30  
 
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I don't even do that. I don't acknowledge the agent who decides your fate and just walk through the metal detector. I then say nope to the agent behind the metal detector.
Great idea. Wish I'd read this before my last opt out last week...Also, for the OP - before you even get to the checkpoint, make sure your wallet, jewelry etc are locked into your carryon using a TSA-unfriendly lock (without a keyhole on the bottom or TSA printed anywhere on it.) They're not that easy to find in the size you want, unfortunately - try here: http://amzn.to/lvXZBA

I never remove anything from my carryon - I figure they're going to go through it all anyway and I'm way more concerned about my stuff walking away than I am about their security theater. (If you're questioned you can always claim you forgot to remove your liquids baggie or whatever.) If you think you may be forced to put your laptop into a bin, ahead of time get yourself a Kensington lock (try here: http://amzn.to/lIigVR) and lock the computer to your carryon handle.

My last few opt outs haven't been horribly traumatizing, until last Wednesday when I had a clerk spend more time than I'd have liked with her hands in my junk. If you have a bad experience, complain to the ACLU here: https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageNa...avel_Complaint and TSA here: http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/civilr...complaint.shtm (although, be aware that filing a complaint with TSA may land you some extra surveillance later or at best be a waste of your time.)

Good luck!
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