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Old Apr 2, 11, 11:05 pm   #1
 
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TSA and NCIC

Hello,

I am wondering if anybody knows for certain/has links to articles about TSA and if it has powers to search NCIC?

I believe this to be a great intrusion of privacy. I am doing a report, however, I cannot find any solid facts on it -- other than NCIC is permitted for "authorized agencies".

Thank you
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Old Apr 3, 11, 6:07 am   #2
 
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TSA is not law enforcement nor has any law enforcement powers. I don't have any articles off hand but if I heard anyone from TSA making a claim they were going to look me or anyone up in ncic I would be getting that persons name to file a complaint locally, a incident report with local pd, and prep a civil rights complaint/suit as well.
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Old Apr 3, 11, 7:44 am   #3
 
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I used to be a Police Dispatcher. I was NOT sworn LEO. I had access to the NCIC system. However, the system keeps a log of every search and who did it.

I doubt that the TSA has such rights, and if they did, we should be able to find out for sure.
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Old Apr 3, 11, 7:57 am   #4
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Originally Posted by Scubatooth View Post
TSA is not law enforcement nor has any law enforcement powers. I don't have any articles off hand but if I heard anyone from TSA making a claim they were going to look me or anyone up in ncic I would be getting that persons name to file a complaint locally, a incident report with local pd, and prep a civil rights complaint/suit as well.
There are LEO types within TSA. Some TSI's, ASO's, Air Marshals, and AFSD for Law Enforcement. There may be others that I am not aware of.
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Old Apr 3, 11, 8:41 am   #5
 
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
There are LEO types within TSA. Some TSI's, ASO's, Air Marshals, and AFSD for Law Enforcement. There may be others that I am not aware of.
And there are those that clear folks under SecureFright.

All may have access to NCIC, especially those running SecureFright.

I would bet the day is coming, however, that all pax are run against NCIC by TSA. It may not be done at the checkpoint, but it will likely be done when your name is submitted by the airline for permission to issue a boarding pass. It will take but a (relatively) few lines of computer code (and my bet is that it exists, but is just turned off until something happens and a politician demands that TSA start running checks).
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Old Apr 3, 11, 9:55 am   #6
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And there are those that clear folks under SecureFright.

All may have access to NCIC, especially those running SecureFright.

I would bet the day is coming, however, that all pax are run against NCIC by TSA. It may not be done at the checkpoint, but it will likely be done when your name is submitted by the airline for permission to issue a boarding pass. It will take but a (relatively) few lines of computer code (and my bet is that it exists, but is just turned off until something happens and a politician demands that TSA start running checks).
I'd be curious to know exactly what databases DHS/TSA uses for secure flight.

I suspect that NCIC or a replica is used among others. If so there is no reason for the degree of invasive screening TSA conducts. A code on the boarding pass could easily designate higher threat travelers calling for additional screening for unknowns or higher threats.

However I don't think TSA has the competency to determine higher threats. the TSA trainers can't even teach the front line TSA employees how to recognize accepted ID's (a waste of manpower) or how to conduct a pat down without feeling up peoples crotches and breasts.

I vote "No Confidence" in any DHS/TSA process based on the abysmal failure demonstrated by current TSA procedures.
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Old Apr 3, 11, 12:12 pm   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRabbit View Post
I am wondering if anybody knows for certain/has links to articles about TSA and if it has powers to search NCIC?
Some including a NY Senator want a full police criminal background check for every passenger.

Read this thread and all the links in it for an eye opener Local news: NY Sen. Schumer pimping new ID scanner

Schumer wants the airport (Buffalo) to become a test site for new technology.

Quote:
If selected, the Department of Homeland Security would install devices that would scan a passengers identification. Once scanned, the machine would cross check the identification with other databases.
"The machine would scan the passenger's identification," said Schumer. "It cross checks their ticket, criminal databases, the no-fly list, and the customs and border protection database."
criminal databases Plural. There you go.

What Schumer wants to buy at $7000 each ($50 million total just for the test phase) for TSA checkpoints so every TDC can be a junior cop wannabee: Hand-held scanner checks 100 databases -- in one second Any chance it can check 100 databases and NOT check NCIC? bolding mine

Quote:
Now the company making the devices, Port Townsend, Washington-based Intellicheck Mobilisa, hopes to expand their use to border agents, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) at airports and more police departments, including those in North Texas.

The wireless, hand-held IM2500 Sentry scanner uses the bar coding or magnetic strip on the back of a driverís license or military ID to check identification from criminal and government databases. It can search for passengers on terror watch lists, weed out fake IDs, track visa overstays, and alert law officers of outstanding warrants.
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Old Apr 3, 11, 8:19 pm   #8
 
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Schumer needs to retire from the Senate and get treatment for his post 9/11 PTSD and write spy novels instead of torturing the rest of the country when we fly. If I thought I could avoid gropes and being radiated and if they actually vetted the smurfs for criminal history and psychological profiles, I would gladly do the security clearance b.s. and promise to not take liquids on the plane and not pack ink or liquds in my suitcase and allow my hands be sniffed and licked by a dog (of course the dog would love the smell of my cat and my dog). I would think that unless you are a violent person that a security clearance type of program may return some of our rights. Not sure how that could be written but I am sure they could think up something. I would think they could at least for those of us who have medical issues and have mental in us or have bags or pumps attached with some sort of prescreeing medical cards from a TSA approved doc instead of harassing us. Flying used to be fun. Now it is so stressful that it makes even vacations not worth it.
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Old Apr 4, 11, 8:50 am   #9
 
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As a matter of the reality on the ground, there have been many reports that if TSA gets into a heated discussion or altercation with a passenger and the police are called, the police almost as a matter of course seem to run the passenger against the NCIC.

Total BS without probable cause IMO to demand ID info for that, but unfortunately IANAL nor am I on the Supreme Court.
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Old Apr 5, 11, 1:15 am   #10
 
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Total BS without probable cause IMO to demand ID info for that.
I don't need PC......I just need RS to run you.....and my RS is that I was called to a situation and I want to know who you are......and if you have had issues with the law before....

I will say (before anyone says anything) I have in fact arrested Screeners in the past on warrants and have cited them for driving like idiots as they headed to/from work..... And they were ran then......
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Old Apr 5, 11, 7:10 am   #11
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I don't need PC......I just need RS to run you.....and my RS is that I was called to a situation and I want to know who you are......and if you have had issues with the law before....

I will say (before anyone says anything) I have in fact arrested Screeners in the past on warrants and have cited them for driving like idiots as they headed to/from work..... And they were ran then......
Have you ever arrested a screener for abusive actions at a TSA checkpoint or do you always side with TSA?

edit to add:

If the following is a nominal definition of "Reasonable Suspicion" then how does a TSA employee summoning you reach this hurdle? Or can you detain a person just because you feel like it?

Quote:
Police may briefly detain a person if they have reasonable suspicion that the person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such a detention is known as a Terry stop.

Last edited by Boggie Dog; Apr 5, 11 at 7:20 am.
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Old Apr 5, 11, 8:42 am   #12
 
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
If the following is a nominal definition of "Reasonable Suspicion" then how does a TSA employee summoning you reach this hurdle? Or can you detain a person just because you feel like it?
Normally when responding to a call, I talk to everyone involved then use my judgment, (I'm allowed to use that unlike most TSO's). And yes, you are being detained until I can figure out what is going on. But, just because someone says something happened, doesn't make it so. If it turns out I've been summoned on false pretenses, I'll take the appropriate action.
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Old Apr 5, 11, 9:27 am   #13
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Normally when responding to a call, I talk to everyone involved then use my judgment, (I'm allowed to use that unlike most TSO's). And yes, you are being detained until I can figure out what is going on. But, just because someone says something happened, doesn't make it so. If it turns out I've been summoned on false pretenses, I'll take the appropriate action.
So you are saying that you detain people without reasonable suspicion?
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Old Apr 5, 11, 9:43 am   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
So you are saying that you detain people without reasonable suspicion?
It happens every day in every State of the Union and has been for decades.

All part of the procedure, the police knowing full well that the 'suspects' are unlikely to object or resist and if they do then there's your RS right there. Airports are no different and in many cases worse, as posted above merely attending a checkpoint constitutes RS in the eyes of some .

Some catch that catch-22.
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Old Apr 5, 11, 9:57 am   #15
 
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
So you are saying that you detain people without reasonable suspicion?
No, I'm saying I do good investigative police work. I don't take the word of any party that a crime has been commited. I ask questions and make judgement calls based on my experience.
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