TSA bag inspections / search AFTER travel (Savannah train incident) [merged thread]
Feb 21, 2011, 3:59 pm
#31
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Feb 21, 2011, 4:47 pm
#34
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IANAL, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Refuse the search, period. TSA cannot detain you for refusing a search. They can only call in LEO reinforcements. And I cannot imagine a judge in the country that would hold refusing to subject oneself to an administrative search to be probable cause for a search or detainment.
Refuse the search, period. TSA cannot detain you for refusing a search. They can only call in LEO reinforcements. And I cannot imagine a judge in the country that would hold refusing to subject oneself to an administrative search to be probable cause for a search or detainment.
Feb 21, 2011, 5:00 pm
#36
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IANAL, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Refuse the search, period. TSA cannot detain you for refusing a search. They can only call in LEO reinforcements. And I cannot imagine a judge in the country that would hold refusing to subject oneself to an administrative search to be probable cause for a search or detainment.
Refuse the search, period. TSA cannot detain you for refusing a search. They can only call in LEO reinforcements. And I cannot imagine a judge in the country that would hold refusing to subject oneself to an administrative search to be probable cause for a search or detainment.
Shouldn't be this way, but it is.
Feb 21, 2011, 5:42 pm
#38
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Desperate TSA?
TSA having caught nothing and having not prevented any terrorist from doing anything either, over all these years, and having missed zillions of potential threats, maybe they are getting really desperate to catch anything for any minor reason, anywhere.
Next they will try searching everyone coming out of a bus terminal.
Here is one place where the Congresscritters can save a billion or two just like that without affecting anything adversely.
Next they will try searching everyone coming out of a bus terminal.
Here is one place where the Congresscritters can save a billion or two just like that without affecting anything adversely.
Feb 21, 2011, 5:43 pm
#39
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This is clearly a violation of her 4th Amendment rights. In the various court rulings that I have reviewed regarding airport searches, even the judges that supported the searches in airports indicated that you have a choice whether to enter the screening area or not, and it was in the greater good of all the passengers that you get screened prior to boarding. They also indicated that the screening was generally required of everyone and not selective as to put "shame" on any particular passenger being screened. It sounds like all of those tenets of passenger searches were violated here. She should contact the local ACLU and see if they will do anything with it.
Feb 21, 2011, 5:48 pm
#40
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Welcome to FT! ^ If they start searches at restroom doors I hope it's on the way out because sometimes at my age I'm in a hurry on the way in.
That seems like a good point to me, a non-lawyer. At what point may we yell Home Free at the end of a flight, ride, or voyage - is it only when we finally touch the door knob on our front door?
That seems like a good point to me, a non-lawyer. At what point may we yell Home Free at the end of a flight, ride, or voyage - is it only when we finally touch the door knob on our front door?
Feb 21, 2011, 6:07 pm
#41
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This is clearly a violation of her 4th Amendment rights. In the various court rulings that I have reviewed regarding airport searches, even the judges that supported the searches in airports indicated that you have a choice whether to enter the screening area or not, and it was in the greater good of all the passengers that you get screened prior to boarding. They also indicated that the screening was generally required of everyone and not selective as to put "shame" on any particular passenger being screened. It sounds like all of those tenets of passenger searches were violated here. She should contact the local ACLU and see if they will do anything with it.
Based on the above, I think TSA could/would argue that this is not different than the current situation at ATL. If you arrive on an international flight and ATL is your final destination, after clearing customs/immigration, you still have to clear TSA to exit the airport. This is because to exit the airport from an international arrival, you have to pass through the 'sterile' area.
In the case of the train station, perhaps the case is the same. If part of the station is 'sterile' and the arriving pax has no alternative but to pass through this area, then the pax must pass through screening on departure.
Feb 21, 2011, 6:40 pm
#42
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If that was not done, then the "sterile" area isn't "sterile" and hence can't be compromised by the admission of the "unsterile" arriving passengers. We have no report that arriving passengers were so searched.
My suspicion rather is that this was a training exercise.
One observation: Since TSA had all these spare personnel to harass people getting off trains, apparently the Savannah airport is secure against attack by Osama bin Ladin and his snowglobe bombs.
Feb 21, 2011, 6:47 pm
#43
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This has gotten out of hand.
Feb 21, 2011, 6:53 pm
#44
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Careful. TSA can point out that she de-trained voluntarily into a secured area. Further, they may choose to extend the area covered by the administrative search to extend from the time the pax enters the secure area, during transit and exits the secure area. Arguably, she was still in the secure area. And although not everyone was screened in this instance, TSA could probably argue that her screening was 'random' (women with young children are arguably less likely to ask questions, but that in no way suggests targeting her was anything but 'random', of course).
Based on the above, I think TSA could/would argue that this is not different than the current situation at ATL. If you arrive on an international flight and ATL is your final destination, after clearing customs/immigration, you still have to clear TSA to exit the airport. This is because to exit the airport from an international arrival, you have to pass through the 'sterile' area.
In the case of the train station, perhaps the case is the same. If part of the station is 'sterile' and the arriving pax has no alternative but to pass through this area, then the pax must pass through screening on departure.
Based on the above, I think TSA could/would argue that this is not different than the current situation at ATL. If you arrive on an international flight and ATL is your final destination, after clearing customs/immigration, you still have to clear TSA to exit the airport. This is because to exit the airport from an international arrival, you have to pass through the 'sterile' area.
In the case of the train station, perhaps the case is the same. If part of the station is 'sterile' and the arriving pax has no alternative but to pass through this area, then the pax must pass through screening on departure.
Feb 21, 2011, 7:09 pm
#45
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The fallacy is that you are trying to only exit the station/airport. In ATL, you do not have to submit to additional TSA screening if all you are trying to do is exit the airport. An LEO (or TSO) should escort you out of the building. What are the ramifications if you refuse to be screened and just want to exit? If the TSA refuses to permit you to leave, at some point it probably becomes false imprisonment.