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Old Nov 14, 10, 8:06 pm   #1
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How have the new "procedures" affected regular business travelers?

I fly twice a week, LAX-ORD-LAX. Have so for the past 9 months.

I have witnessed many a pat down and screening.

I have heard and read the protests, and I am all for them. I think this sort of "cart after the horse" security is a waste of time, money, and our freedoms.

But I really don't have much choice at this point. I have to get from point A to point B. My company is not concerned with my personal opinion, that my freedoms are being stomped on twice a week.

I make my way through the NudieScan when told, have had the "pat down" a few times, both in the past and recently, and on MOST occasions, just make my way through the metal detector as usual, and collect my items.

I am curious what other business travelers are doing, if anything, to let there dissatisfaction be known to the TSA?


HP
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Old Nov 14, 10, 8:44 pm   #2
  
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Originally Posted by HighPotter View Post
I fly twice a week, LAX-ORD-LAX.
HP
If you do not have a family to get home to, I highly recommend Amtrak's Southwest Chief and you occasionally just stay in Chicago for a weekend.

We need to hit the airlines where it hurts.
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Old Nov 14, 10, 8:47 pm   #3
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[QUOTE=KansasMike;15141509]If you do not have a family to get home to, I highly recommend Amtrak's Southwest Chief and you occasionally just stay in Chicago for a weekend.

We need to hit the airlines where it hurts.[/QUOTE

I DO have a family to get home to.

What are you doing different in your travels?


HP
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Old Nov 14, 10, 8:48 pm   #4
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Originally Posted by HighPotter View Post
I am curious what other business travelers are doing, if anything, to let there dissatisfaction be known to the TSA?
HP
FS-Dad travels every week for business. In less than four years, he racked up 500K miles on F9.. He either picks a lane that does not have the NoS, or he will opt-out. With the amount he flies (currently 1P), he does not need the additional radiation exposure from the backscatter being used at MCO..

I'd encourage you to opt-out. We really don't know how these machines will affect people down the road. They could have deadly consequences..
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Old Nov 14, 10, 8:53 pm   #5
  
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Originally Posted by HighPotter View Post
I fly twice a week, LAX-ORD-LAX. Have so for the past 9 months.

I have witnessed many a pat down and screening.

I have heard and read the protests, and I am all for them. I think this sort of "cart after the horse" security is a waste of time, money, and our freedoms.

But I really don't have much choice at this point. I have to get from point A to point B. My company is not concerned with my personal opinion, that my freedoms are being stomped on twice a week.

I make my way through the NudieScan when told, have had the "pat down" a few times, both in the past and recently, and on MOST occasions, just make my way through the metal detector as usual, and collect my items.

I am curious what other business travelers are doing, if anything, to let there dissatisfaction be known to the TSA?


HP
One RT each week until Christmas. I average 3.5 RT per month. That makes me a regular. I have started adding at least 30 minutes to my clear time. Just needed it once and that was due to a total failure at throughput when not enough lines were open.

1. I try to seek out and position myself in a line that avoids a scanner. I call it a SDPOO, self directed positional opt out. Sometimes possible, sometimes not.

2. If I have to, I get in line behind the prettiest young women I can find. While they get scanned I get the WTMD. Got in line with the Denver University Women's Soccer team. I became invisible. They did not even swab my bag.

3. If I am selected for the scanner, I opt out. I take the pat down, and leave. I can put myself into another world for a few minutes and I just wait for them to say it is done. If they want to look down my pants, well it bothers me, it is stupid, but it is them that looks like the idiot doing it. I just grin.

4. Not real sure what will happen if they ask me to go to the private room.

While it is becoming less likely to avoid opting out, I have been able to avoid it except for three times. That is about a 10% hit rate over the flights I have taken since mid year.

By the way, I do not consider it a sexual assault. An assault, yes. Just not sexual. I only worry that an overly aggressive screener will cause an injury. If that happens, I have decided I will go to the first red phone once clear, call the AP medic, and seek medical attention for the rough handling. That should generate enough paperwork to keep them busy for awhile. I will only do this if I really am injured or in pain. No harm, no foul as they say.

The airport is my workplace transportation. Without it, I might be forced to find a job from a pizza box or something. Also, I am a self-employed businessman. The TSA authoritarianism is one of many heavy hands of government to which I have to bow down. It is a cost of doing business today. Is it right? No. It just is.

I do not talk to the TSA screeners. They are pawns. There is absolutely nothing I can say to them that will make anything better. I do tell the pat down person that I am hearing impaired and if I do not respond to his instructions it is because I do not hear his instruction. I ask them to repeat the procedure two or three time until I am sure I understand, "I have trouble hearing can you repeat that?"

If they try to make small talk, I give grunts and put them on ignore. The TDC sees I am from Kentucky and asks me if I go to he Derby. I say "What's a derby?"

Short answer: I do nothing at the screening to let them know of my displeasure. Oh, one exception: when they do not take my Nexus. This really frosts me.
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Old Nov 14, 10, 8:58 pm   #6
  
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Most business travelers simply want to get through security as quickly as possible, so we can find a place with a power outlet and get business / work done. If the imaging device is faster, then business travelers will just use it (mostly.)

There's another forum here that suggests that a person travelling for business could file suit against their company for requiring them to travel and thereby be submitted to the sexual groping/harassment of TSA with the "enhanced" pat down.
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Old Nov 14, 10, 9:01 pm   #7
  
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Originally Posted by FriendlySkies View Post
I'd encourage you to opt-out. We really don't know how these machines will affect people down the road. They could have deadly consequences..
Assuming the machines are properly calibrated and maintained (a huge assumption given the nature of the TSA) then the real question is whether the backscatter scans are more dangerous than a banana.

But seriously, to address the OP's question, there is a thread about business liability when employees are required to be scanned naked or groped in the completion of their daily jobs.

Is your company large enough that you could talk to HR? Maybe ask them to write a letter to their Congressman/Senators expressing concern at the additional liability to businesses?
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Old Nov 14, 10, 9:02 pm   #8
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Originally Posted by InkUnderNails View Post
One RT each week until Christmas. I average 3.5 RT per month. That makes me a regular. I have started adding at least 30 minutes to my clear time. Just needed it once and that was due to a total failure at throughput when not enough lines were open.

1. I try to seek out and position myself in a line that avoids a scanner. I call it a SDPOO, self directed positional opt out. Sometimes possible, sometimes not.

2. If I have to, I get in line behind the prettiest young women I can find. While they get scanned I get the WTMD. Got in line with the Denver University Women's Soccer team. I became invisible. They did not even swab my bag.

3. If I am selected for the scanner, I opt out. I take the pat down, and leave. I can put myself into another world for a few minutes and I just wait for them to say it is done. If they want to look down my pants, well it bothers me, it is stupid, but it is them that looks like the idiot doing it. I just grin.

4. Not real sure what will happen if they ask me to go to the private room.

While it is becoming less likely to avoid opting out, I have been able to avoid it except for three times. That is about a 10% hit rate over the flights I have taken since mid year.

By the way, I do not consider it a sexual assault. An assault, yes. Just not sexual. I only worry that an overly aggressive screener will cause an injury. If that happens, I have decided I will go to the first red phone once clear, call the AP medic, and seek medical attention for the rough handling. That should generate enough paperwork to keep them busy for awhile. I will only do this if I really am injured or in pain. No harm, no foul as they say.

The airport is my workplace transportation. Without it, I might be forced to find a job from a pizza box or something. Also, I am a self-employed businessman. The TSA authoritarianism is one of many heavy hands of government to which I have to bow down. It is a cost of doing business today. Is it right? No. It just is.

I do not talk to the TSA screeners. They are pawns. There is absolutely nothing I can say to them that will make anything better. I do tell the pat down person that I am hearing impaired and if I do not respond to his instructions it is because I do not hear his instruction. I ask them to repeat the procedure two or three time until I am sure I understand, "I have trouble hearing can you repeat that?"

If they try to make small talk, I give grunts and put them on ignore. The TDC sees I am from Kentucky and asks me if I go to he Derby. I say "What's a derby?"

Short answer: I do nothing at the screening to let them know of my displeasure. Oh, one exception: when they do not take my Nexus. This really frosts me.
I suppose in many ways we are alike. I look for the lines that don't have the scanner, but this depend on my schedule and time line. After that, I go with the flow. I have opted out several time, but have also been scanned. I suppose this is my plan. try and keep the scanning to a minimum, but not have my junk fondled on a regular occasion.

These are the facts of my life right now.

HP
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Old Nov 14, 10, 9:09 pm   #9
  
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Fed Up with Being Felt Up

As a member of the workforce and general population, it is impossible to escape the issue of sexual harassment and what it does to anyone encountering it: increased stress, lost productivity, mental and physical illness, even the fear of violence. As a parent, we teach our children to not let others touch their bodies. How then, did we allow Congress and TSA the ability to manually touch our bodies in its quest to out the bad guys?
Personally, I’m fed up with being felt up.

TSA’s latest is a blatant encroachment on all things private—no longer a pat down … what’s being done bypasses any police “pat down” I’ve witnessed. Within the past two weeks, I’ve experienced the new system four times with some variation. Traveling as many do with artificial joints and implants, I’m one of those who sound the alarms. Being used to the “wanding,” I was stunned with the incredible invasiveness of what’s going on now.

Three children call me Gramma. I get, and enjoy countless letters from those who have heard me speak and who have read the many books that I’ve authored. I speak globally on them. I’m approaching my second million miles as a frequent flyer on United Airlines. On top of my head is a mop of silver hair. I don’t look like a terrorist; I don’t act like a terrorist; I don’t think like a terrorist … I am not a terrorist. What I am is a frequent traveler with double titanium knee implants. And, I’m mad as hell.

Sounding the security alarm after removing shoes, computers and passing through the sensors with less than five items on me, I’m told to stand on the pad and spread my feet. I’m asked if I want a private room, they do ask that—most of us frequent flyers just want to get through the damn line and to our boarding gate … declining, here’s what happened …

Told to assume “the position,” two feet are placed on the mat, spread eagle and the TSA agent—same gender—gives you her verbiage drill that she will “feel” and no longer pat … blah, blah, blah. Arms out, palms up. Beginning at my neck, she feels all around my collar and under it … mind you I have no visible jewelry but small earrings and a wrist watch. I am not asked if there is anything that lurks hidden. I always say that I have double knee implants and bolts in my right shoulder as a courtesy to them.

She then proceeds along my arms, running both her hands along them from my armpits to the wrists. She then moves to my back and does a full feel over it … now moving her hands fully across my butt, moving them inside my waist band and then circles to my front side, readying for the frontal assault. Jeeze. Beginning with her hand flat on my chest under my chin, she begins her downward stroke between my breasts, and running her hand under each. I want to swat her away. She says, “If you want, you can have a private screening…” I’m thinking, “Yeah, to feel me up more –hey, hey TSA, how many boobs have your felt today …”

I tell her, “Just get it over with …” Hmmm, the procedure doesn’t move more swiftly. She then moves her hands, both of them, to my waist and belly. Hands move sideways across my belly, lifting my shirt, and feeling inside my waistband. I’m getting pissed … I don’t like strangers in my pants. The legs are next. Beginning at the ankle of each inner leg, she firmly moves the palm side of her hand up, all the way to my crotch, not once, but twice. Now, I’m really pissed … and feel incredibly violated. I want a shower … I want to get home … I don’t want to fly anymore … and I know I have my final roundtrip flight in two weeks for the year, then off the road for a month ….

The week before, the agent in Las Vegas wanted my passport number and name because the buzzer did the alarm thing and she did her search procedure—not once, but twice, forcing me into the private room. What was I wearing? … socks, black slacks, underwear, blouse with long sleeves. My usual.

I now dislike air travel, where I used to embrace it … and I have to do it with my work. I find myself resisting going to the airport. I detest all things TSA and wonder just how many billions/trillions are sucked into this government wasteland. I’m amused when I hear others say that they make travel safer. To the professional traveler, that statement in itself is a joke.

Frankly, I don’t want anyone feeling me up and down unless I invite them to do it. Does TSA have a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy like the Military in its hiring? Could there be stalking and undercover men and women enjoying this new opportunity? With the full ankle to crotch “feels,” how do the guys like it as the hand moves up to the base of the crotch, touching their dangling parts? Hmmm, has one of the TSA male agents ever wanted to say, “Cough”?

Why has Congress approved this outrageous, personally humiliating “search” that screams sexual harassment? I was told by the TSA supervisor in Phoenix that Congress approved the new procedure. We have laws against inappropriate behavior. I want to know which members voted for it. Where is the ALCU in its outrage on the assault of the innocent flyer? How about the ABA? Why aren’t the airlines shouting, “enough of this nonsense”? Is this why TSA agents now where blue uniforms similar to what many cops have worn, so they look more “official/threatening”? If men and women are opting for the “private” screening, are their two agents there vs. one?—after all, I didn’t sign anything that I gave written permission to have my body touched and handled.

A full body massage when you are in the buff has more integrity. Yep, I’m fed up with being felt up. I will do everything to curtail travel using the airlines. What’s the number for Amtrak?
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Old Nov 14, 10, 9:16 pm   #10
  
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Welcome Judithbriles to FT. Thanks for your post and your willingness to share it.

I am speechless. Disgusting, simply disgusting.

This has to stop.
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Old Nov 14, 10, 9:19 pm   #11
  
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Originally Posted by Judithbriles View Post
Why has Congress approved this outrageous, personally humiliating “search” that screams sexual harassment? I was told by the TSA supervisor in Phoenix that Congress approved the new procedure.
You were lied to.

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Originally Posted by Judithbriles View Post
Where is the ALCU in its outrage on the assault of the innocent flyer? How about the ABA? Why aren’t the airlines shouting, “enough of this nonsense”? Is this why TSA agents now where blue uniforms similar to what many cops have worn, so they look more “official/threatening”?
ACLU: Excellent question. I have emailed them without answer.

ABA: Useless.

Airlines: Excellent question. I have emailed five of them, only AA seems to have a clue, I have not heard back from UA.

TSA: Yes.
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Old Nov 14, 10, 9:19 pm   #12
  
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...
Welcome to FlyerTalk and thanks for the informative post. Too bad the description of the Grape™ is SSI .

Please distribute a hardcopy of your post to your elected representatives, executive office of your airline, and anyone else you think would be worth including.
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Old Nov 14, 10, 9:23 pm   #13
  
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What are you doing different in your travels?
I am avoiding traveling by air whenever possible.

I live in ICT. In recent months I have driven to AUS, MLI and Vail, markets where I always have flown in the past.

Unfortunately, the week after Thanksgiving, I have to fly to CLT to give a speech. I fully understand why some of us have to fly to do our jobs -- I am often in that position. That said, if it is a less than 12 hour drive, I will drive these days.
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Old Nov 14, 10, 9:27 pm   #14
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I don’t look like a terrorist; I don’t act like a terrorist; I don’t think like a terrorist… I am not a terrorist
How would anyone know that you are not a terrorist based on the fact that you have grey hair?

I'm not a terrorist either, but there are many who say I look like one, act like one, think and talk like one.
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Old Nov 14, 10, 9:33 pm   #15
  
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Aside from the pilots and flight attendants, having tried to deal with issues directly with the airlines in the past, I fear they are of the same thinking ability as the TSA. They need to step forward - NOW.

What will happen? Frequent travelers will become less frequent travelers. Suddenly, a pleasure trip or a vacation will not be a way to lower your blood pressure. People will start to look at the alternatives. And use them.

Video conferencing will become used more often. If the destination is a day's drive, people will opt for the car add it up - 2 hours before your flight, two to 3 hour flight, getting through the airport, grabbing a car...what's another couple hours?

Unfortunately, this will not bode well for the airlines, hotel business, rental car business and it will impact the oil business. Unlike after 9/11, that business will not return. Companies that pay for travel won't mind if they see their travel expenses significantly cut.
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