How have the new "procedures" affected regular business travelers?
Nov 14, 2010, 9:53 pm
#17
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Well, I hate to break it to you people, but the "public" has spoken and told their government that any means that "enhances security" is just dandy. There are many in the industry who have been sounding the alarm regarding invasion of privacy and nuisance procedures, but we were silenced by the drumbeat of the "public" who was willing to sacrifice personal liberty in the name of "security". So please, tell your representatives that virtual strip searches and not allowing liquids and all the other nonsense we are subjected to at the airport have to stop. But don't be surprised when nothing gets better-frightened people have made terrible, unconstitutional policies, and good luck overturning them.
Nov 14, 2010, 9:59 pm
#18
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Western Mass
Programs: AA, HH, Hyatt Gold, Marriott Platinum, UA, DL, US
Posts: 424
Cheers,
JB
Nov 15, 2010, 6:56 am
#19
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
My IAD-LAX-IAD trips (formerly twice a month) have gone to zero since I got an invasive frisk as punishment for "refusing" the strip-search machine in October. I have one more trip to Europe this year (booked in August, non-refundable), and I may have to make one more west coast trip but I am going to do my best to avoid that. And Christmas, IF we travel, will be by car.
It's probably cost the airlines $5K of my company's money already, plus the hotel and rental car. Yes, work is less efficient, but I don't have to be humiliated at the airport.
It's probably cost the airlines $5K of my company's money already, plus the hotel and rental car. Yes, work is less efficient, but I don't have to be humiliated at the airport.
Nov 15, 2010, 7:12 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: UA PE, FL A+Elite, X-DL Silver, X-AA Gold, HH Diam, Marriott Silv
Posts: 213
2. If I have to, I get in line behind the prettiest young women I can find. While they get scanned I get the WTMD. Got in line with the Denver University Women's Soccer team. I became invisible. They did not even swab my bag.
...
By the way, I do not consider it a sexual assault. An assault, yes. Just not sexual.
Nov 15, 2010, 7:15 am
#21
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
Judithbriles wrote:
Congress has not approved these searches.
Francine Kerner, the TSA's Chief Counsel, in partial response to EPIC's suit has said:
IOW, she feels that the TSA needs no approval of any sort to institute any new screening procedure.
Hopefully, her comeuppance is near.
Why has Congress approved this outrageous, personally humiliating “search” that screams sexual harassment?
Francine Kerner, the TSA's Chief Counsel, in partial response to EPIC's suit has said:
"TSA is not required to initiate APA (Administrative Procedures Act) rulemaking procedures each time the agency develops and implements improved passenger screening procedures."
Hopefully, her comeuppance is near.
Last edited by doober; Nov 16, 2010 at 6:43 am Reason: spelling
Nov 15, 2010, 10:41 pm
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: LAX
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Posts: 376
Aside from the pilots and flight attendants, having tried to deal with issues directly with the airlines in the past, I fear they are of the same thinking ability as the TSA. They need to step forward - NOW.
What will happen? Frequent travelers will become less frequent travelers. Suddenly, a pleasure trip or a vacation will not be a way to lower your blood pressure. People will start to look at the alternatives. And use them.
Video conferencing will become used more often. If the destination is a day's drive, people will opt for the car add it up - 2 hours before your flight, two to 3 hour flight, getting through the airport, grabbing a car...what's another couple hours?
Unfortunately, this will not bode well for the airlines, hotel business, rental car business and it will impact the oil business. Unlike after 9/11, that business will not return. Companies that pay for travel won't mind if they see their travel expenses significantly cut.
What will happen? Frequent travelers will become less frequent travelers. Suddenly, a pleasure trip or a vacation will not be a way to lower your blood pressure. People will start to look at the alternatives. And use them.
Video conferencing will become used more often. If the destination is a day's drive, people will opt for the car add it up - 2 hours before your flight, two to 3 hour flight, getting through the airport, grabbing a car...what's another couple hours?
Unfortunately, this will not bode well for the airlines, hotel business, rental car business and it will impact the oil business. Unlike after 9/11, that business will not return. Companies that pay for travel won't mind if they see their travel expenses significantly cut.
Or look for another job.
And that is not going to happen.
HP
Nov 16, 2010, 12:03 am
#23
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: PHX/MSP
Programs: US Airways Silver Preferred
Posts: 231
Does anyone know if the new TSA mandates has created an increase in business for fractional companies (NetJets,Flight Options,etc). One would think this would be the time in which they could drum up some new business with large corporations who regularly send employees to different locations to conduct business..
Nov 16, 2010, 3:57 am
#24
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
Since you seem to be one of the few people posting who've had that experience, can you summarize the differences you felt/saw between the pre-October 28 and post-October 28 pat-downs? That will greatly help in evaluating claims by TSOs that that pat-downs haven't changed much.
Nov 16, 2010, 4:16 am
#25
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Back in YYZ after 3 years of expat life in LHR
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Posts: 924
I SDPOO as much as possible
This morning I got part way to the airport and realized I hadn't brought my Nexus card - turned around and went back home to get it. For domestic Canadian travel. Go figure. But I did that because YYZ has a Nexus security line - the fastest and most reasonable security I've been through in years (with no NoS).
This morning I got part way to the airport and realized I hadn't brought my Nexus card - turned around and went back home to get it. For domestic Canadian travel. Go figure. But I did that because YYZ has a Nexus security line - the fastest and most reasonable security I've been through in years (with no NoS).
Nov 16, 2010, 4:26 am
#26
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: here and there
Programs: EB*G, UA ex1K
Posts: 570
Does anyone know if the new TSA mandates has created an increase in business for fractional companies (NetJets,Flight Options,etc). One would think this would be the time in which they could drum up some new business with large corporations who regularly send employees to different locations to conduct business..
Demand for chartered private flights is growing. CSI Aviation Services, which provides charter flights, has had an increase of 14 percent in bookings for so-called executive jets in the last 12 months, said Erica Morgan, the marketing coordinator.
That's a big increase in a down economy. OTOH, the article says that TSA wants to increase security on chartered and company owned planes.Told to assume “the position,” two feet are placed on the mat, spread eagle and the TSA agent—same gender—gives you her verbiage drill that she will “feel” and no longer pat … blah, blah, blah. Arms out, palms up. Beginning at my neck, she feels all around my collar and under it … mind you I have no visible jewelry but small earrings and a wrist watch. I am not asked if there is anything that lurks hidden. I always say that I have double knee implants and bolts in my right shoulder as a courtesy to them.
She then proceeds along my arms, running both her hands along them from my armpits to the wrists. She then moves to my back and does a full feel over it … now moving her hands fully across my butt, moving them inside my waist band and then circles to my front side, readying for the frontal assault. Jeeze. Beginning with her hand flat on my chest under my chin, she begins her downward stroke between my breasts, and running her hand under each. I want to swat her away. She says, “If you want, you can have a private screening…” I’m thinking, “Yeah, to feel me up more –hey, hey TSA, how many boobs have your felt today …”
I tell her, “Just get it over with …” Hmmm, the procedure doesn’t move more swiftly. She then moves her hands, both of them, to my waist and belly. Hands move sideways across my belly, lifting my shirt, and feeling inside my waistband. I’m getting pissed … I don’t like strangers in my pants. The legs are next. Beginning at the ankle of each inner leg, she firmly moves the palm side of her hand up, all the way to my crotch, not once, but twice. Now, I’m really pissed … and feel incredibly violated. I want a shower … I want to get home … I don’t want to fly anymore … and I know I have my final roundtrip flight in two weeks for the year, then off the road for a month ….
H-ll, send it to the NYTimes as an op-ed or letter to the editor.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Nov 17, 2010 at 12:19 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
Nov 16, 2010, 4:52 am
#27
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Nov 16, 2010, 5:13 am
#28
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8320/4.5.0.81 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)
I have switched six roundtrips from DL to Amtrak for the remainder of this year. Haven't decided about my 2011 travel.
I have switched six roundtrips from DL to Amtrak for the remainder of this year. Haven't decided about my 2011 travel.
Nov 16, 2010, 5:49 am
#29
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: here and there
Programs: EB*G, UA ex1K
Posts: 570
It might be a good idea to write and let DL know what you did and why. The lost revenue will show up in their data, but make it easy for them to connect the dots.
Nov 16, 2010, 5:56 am
#30
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
But not such a large increase in an improving economy, which is what we have, especially since the business jet sector took a very bad beating after the negative PR about having a "private jet". I think the timing is wrong to view it as related to TSA.