US Border Patrol checkpoint on I-10 in west Texas
#31
Join Date: Nov 2009
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The difference is that highway patrol cars or motorcycle officers on city streets don't pull people over for fishing expeditions without probable cause. Ordinary LEOs don't (legally) get to do traffic stops "just because."
I guess an exception would be roadside sobriety checkpoints run by state or local LEOs and yes I do hyperventilate and panic over those. They shouldn't exist. Even more disgusting an intrusion on our civil liberties are those jurisdictions that allow roadside blood samples to be compelled. Truly appalling and worthy of much hyperventilation and panic!
I guess an exception would be roadside sobriety checkpoints run by state or local LEOs and yes I do hyperventilate and panic over those. They shouldn't exist. Even more disgusting an intrusion on our civil liberties are those jurisdictions that allow roadside blood samples to be compelled. Truly appalling and worthy of much hyperventilation and panic!
Do you hyperventilate and panic over roadside sobriety checkpoints if you haven't been drinking? If you haven't been drinking and don't appear to be impaired at all, what is the rational basis for your fear, panic, and hyperanxiety?
And if you honestly do hyperventilate and panic over checkpoints (Border Patrol, sobriety, whatever) did you ever think that your anxiety over the matter is translating to body language which makes you appear more suspicious or interesting to a LEO? Seriously if you have this much anxiety over checkpoints for things that you're not guilty of or doing, the US Constitution isn't going to help you much, I think you need to see a therapist.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Sep 1, 2010 at 2:40 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
#32
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 861
How naive. Have you seen a vehicle code book? If an officer can't find "probable cause" or a violation to pull somebody over after following them for a mile or two at most, they're not creative or just not interested in pulling you over to talk to you. Everything from weaving in a lane to 3-4 mph over the posted limit will do the trick. Also you took that turn a little wide works as well as any and all equipment violations such as cracked windshields, non working license plate lights. Take your pick.
#33
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Again, not condoning it, just saying it happens.
#34
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If you haven't been drinking and don't appear to be impaired at all, what is the rational basis for your fear, panic, and hyperanxiety?
Where do YOU draw the line?
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Sep 1, 2010 at 2:38 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
#35
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#36
Join Date: Mar 2001
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I treat my right to privacy a little bit more seriously than you, I guess. Personally, the idea of living in some sort of police state wherein I have to produce papers to authority figures at random times and unpredictable places without having done anything wrong strikes me as a pretty hellish kind of existence.
#37
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I treat my right to privacy a little bit more seriously than you, I guess. Personally, the idea of living in some sort of police state wherein I have to produce papers to authority figures at random times and unpredictable places without having done anything wrong strikes me as a pretty hellish kind of existence.
#38
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Maryland
Estimated state population (2007): 5,618,344
Estimated border population (2007): 5,516,123
Percentage of population in Constitution-Free Zone: 98.18%
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Estimated state population (2007): 5,618,344
Estimated border population (2007): 5,516,123
Percentage of population in Constitution-Free Zone: 98.18%
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#39
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I am sorry but I have to disagree and so do the courts so far. The primary reason for the checkpoint is Immigration Status. However, if reasonable suspicion is developed the vehicle or occupants can be sent to secondary. If probable cause is developed then a vehicle can be searched. The agent is allowed to ask additional questions, you as always do not have to answer. Your failure to answer can not be the only reason to trigger a secondary.
FB
FB
Good luck getting an answer out of FB there.
#42
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
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Posts: 3,723
"Minor" examples: Many of those who enjoy photography, rail-fanning (watching trains), plane spotting, and mobile/portable amateur radio operation can tell stories of being treated like a criminal by the cops. Of course, there are more serious examples like banning/restricting a religious or political group.
Part of the beauty of the search restrictions is that they prevent cops from ever seeing perfectly harmless/legal things that some might construe as suspicious. E.g,. Kathy Parker at PHL would never have been harassed by the cops about her "almost sequential" checks if the TSA and cops hadn't gone on an unreasonable fishing expedition in her wallet. E.g., I start my annual vegetable garden from seed under lights in my basement every spring, which some un-educated people might construe of evidence of a drug operation, but as long as the cops aren't in my basement, I don't have to explain my tomatoes or why I think they're better than the plants I can buy at Home Depot.
#43
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Or it will be the day the government re-classifies your career, hobbies, or day-to-day activities as an actual or de-facto crime.
"Minor" examples: Many of those who enjoy photography, rail-fanning (watching trains), plane spotting, and mobile/portable amateur radio operation can tell stories of being treated like a criminal by the cops. Of course, there are more serious examples like banning/restricting a religious or political group.
Part of the beauty of the search restrictions is that they prevent cops from ever seeing perfectly harmless/legal things that some might construe as suspicious. E.g,. Kathy Parker at PHL would never have been harassed by the cops about her "almost sequential" checks if the TSA and cops hadn't gone on an unreasonable fishing expedition in her wallet. E.g., I start my annual vegetable garden from seed under lights in my basement every spring, which some un-educated people might construe of evidence of a drug operation, but as long as the cops aren't in my basement, I don't have to explain my tomatoes or why I think they're better than the plants I can buy at Home Depot.
"Minor" examples: Many of those who enjoy photography, rail-fanning (watching trains), plane spotting, and mobile/portable amateur radio operation can tell stories of being treated like a criminal by the cops. Of course, there are more serious examples like banning/restricting a religious or political group.
Part of the beauty of the search restrictions is that they prevent cops from ever seeing perfectly harmless/legal things that some might construe as suspicious. E.g,. Kathy Parker at PHL would never have been harassed by the cops about her "almost sequential" checks if the TSA and cops hadn't gone on an unreasonable fishing expedition in her wallet. E.g., I start my annual vegetable garden from seed under lights in my basement every spring, which some un-educated people might construe of evidence of a drug operation, but as long as the cops aren't in my basement, I don't have to explain my tomatoes or why I think they're better than the plants I can buy at Home Depot.
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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How naive. Have you seen a vehicle code book? If an officer can't find "probable cause" or a violation to pull somebody over after following them for a mile or two at most, they're not creative or just not interested in pulling you over to talk to you. Everything from weaving in a lane to 3-4 mph over the posted limit will do the trick. Also you took that turn a little wide works as well as any and all equipment violations such as cracked windshields, non working license plate lights. Take your pick.
I think you've lost perspective.
Last edited by Ari; Aug 28, 2010 at 7:46 am
#45
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: UA *Alliance
Posts: 5,590
If it isn't already, I really feel that the irrational fear of police checkpoints or cops in general should be included in the next edition of the DSM.
Or it will be the day the government re-classifies your career, hobbies, or day-to-day activities as an actual or de-facto crime.
"Minor" examples: Many of those who enjoy photography, rail-fanning (watching trains), plane spotting, and mobile/portable amateur radio operation can tell stories of being treated like a criminal by the cops. Of course, there are more serious examples like banning/restricting a religious or political group.
Part of the beauty of the search restrictions is that they prevent cops from ever seeing perfectly harmless/legal things that some might construe as suspicious. E.g,. Kathy Parker at PHL would never have been harassed by the cops about her "almost sequential" checks if the TSA and cops hadn't gone on an unreasonable fishing expedition in her wallet. E.g., I start my annual vegetable garden from seed under lights in my basement every spring, which some un-educated people might construe of evidence of a drug operation, but as long as the cops aren't in my basement, I don't have to explain my tomatoes or why I think they're better than the plants I can buy at Home Depot.
"Minor" examples: Many of those who enjoy photography, rail-fanning (watching trains), plane spotting, and mobile/portable amateur radio operation can tell stories of being treated like a criminal by the cops. Of course, there are more serious examples like banning/restricting a religious or political group.
Part of the beauty of the search restrictions is that they prevent cops from ever seeing perfectly harmless/legal things that some might construe as suspicious. E.g,. Kathy Parker at PHL would never have been harassed by the cops about her "almost sequential" checks if the TSA and cops hadn't gone on an unreasonable fishing expedition in her wallet. E.g., I start my annual vegetable garden from seed under lights in my basement every spring, which some un-educated people might construe of evidence of a drug operation, but as long as the cops aren't in my basement, I don't have to explain my tomatoes or why I think they're better than the plants I can buy at Home Depot.
I really don't see much of a difference between an officer or security talking to a railfan or plane spotter than a police officer assigned to your neighborhood or mine as their beat stopping to talk to somebody that they've never seen before just to check them out. Is the person committing a crime walking through our neighborhoods, no. Do they have a reason to be there, maybe maybe not. Is it good work by the officer to at least try to stop and say hi and see what they're up to? Absolutely!
The sequential checks thing for Kathy Parker at PHL was ridiculously over the top, she was no threat to travel, never should have happened. That was an example of a TSA goofball trying to catch the big embezzler or something.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Sep 1, 2010 at 2:37 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts