TSA opening luagge- no notice?
Jun 29, 2010, 12:21 am
#31
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 381
"There don't need to be that many or for then to be reported. The underlying problem is not whether the TSA puts in pieces of paper, but that the TSA opens bags at all. Back when things worked properly, you gave your bag to the airline and it was their responsibility (to a limited extent, and so long as you were responsible and locked it securely) to get it back to you. Now, the TSA opens bags willy-nilly, causing a huge security problem.
I don't think it's a big deal within the USA. (Still evil. Still wrong. Still stupid. But not a big deal in practice.) Some pilfering may occur, but it's very rare.
However, for international travellers, the situation is awful. If you are flying from the USA to, say, India, and the TSA opens your bag, it arrives there as an open invitation to thieves. If items are stolen (and I know people this has happened to), the airline (and insurance, if any) will deny all responsibility because the bag wasn't locked and the TSA will deny all responsibility because they didn't actually do the stealing!"
I don't think it's a big deal within the USA. (Still evil. Still wrong. Still stupid. But not a big deal in practice.) Some pilfering may occur, but it's very rare.
However, for international travellers, the situation is awful. If you are flying from the USA to, say, India, and the TSA opens your bag, it arrives there as an open invitation to thieves. If items are stolen (and I know people this has happened to), the airline (and insurance, if any) will deny all responsibility because the bag wasn't locked and the TSA will deny all responsibility because they didn't actually do the stealing!"
Regarding your 2nd paragraph, concur, it's not a big problem(statistically). However, if it's your items that were stolen, it is a big problem, especially if you needed those items at your destination.
Regarding your 3rd paragraph, yeah, it's a possible scenario, but a TSA lock will not deter many criminals, period.
[QUOTE=Boggie Dog;14202336]
"Without the notice of inspection TSA has an easy out saying TSA employees are not responsible for a missing item. I agree it does not prove TSA employees are stealing items from baggage but it certainly makes it appear that TSA employees are doing so.
I don't think this answers in any way why TSA employees would have difficulty with such a simple task requiring the employee to place a notice inside of inspected luggage. Is it a matter of incompetence, lack of training or just knowing no penalty will result for not performing the job correctly?
And I ask again, what penalty if any results from a TSA employee failing to place an Inspection Notice is checked baggage?
Since TSA took over airport screenings luggage theft has risen. Why do you suppose that is?"
Regarding your 1st paragraph, not true to statement 1 and 2. If it can be proven in a court of law that said TSO committed theft, then that TSO will be convicted, terminated, and possibly incarcerated. Proof like surveillance camera recording, eyewitnesses, and circumstantial evidence. Speculating that it is the TSOs doing this is just that, speculation. Accusing a TSO of stealing something when he/she did not opens the accuser up to criminal charges like obstruction and to civil charges which the accused will most likely want to bear against the accuser. Just because they are TSOs does not deprive them of their rights.
Regarding your 2nd paragraph, it's a matter of human imperfection. I'm sorry to have to tell you this but people make
mistakes.@:-) In no way would I construe this to fall under any of the 3 categories you listed though there might be a few who do out of the 40K + employees TSA employs.
Regarding your 3rd paragraph, and I say again, I do not know.
Regarding your 4th paragraph, a non sequitur(it does not follow) statement. Let me make an equally fallacious statement: Since you started posting on this forum, TSA bashing has increased. Why do you suppose that is.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jun 29, 2010 at 12:57 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Jun 29, 2010, 5:03 am
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
[QUOTE=QUERY;14212012]
You obviously enjoy playing broken records, so let me replay mine for you.
Regarding your 1st paragraph, not true to statement 1 and 2. If it can be proven in a court of law that said TSO committed theft, then that TSO will be convicted, terminated, and possibly incarcerated. Proof like surveillance camera recording, eyewitnesses, and circumstantial evidence. Speculating that it is the TSOs doing this is just that, speculation. Accusing a TSO of stealing something when he/she did not opens the accuser up to criminal charges like obstruction and to civil charges which the accused will most likely want to bear against the accuser. Just because they are TSOs does not deprive them of their rights.
Regarding your 2nd paragraph, it's a matter of human imperfection. I'm sorry to have to tell you this but people make
mistakes.@:-) In no way would I construe this to fall under any of the 3 categories you listed though there might be a few who do out of the 40K + employees TSA employs.
Regarding your 3rd paragraph, and I say again, I do not know.
Regarding your 4th paragraph, a non sequitur(it does not follow) statement. Let me make an equally fallacious statement: Since you started posting on this forum, TSA bashing has increased. Why do you suppose that is.
Yet it still seems there is no penalty for TSA employees who fail to do the job properly.
Regarding your last statement, I don't like TSA!
You obviously enjoy playing broken records, so let me replay mine for you.
Regarding your 1st paragraph, not true to statement 1 and 2. If it can be proven in a court of law that said TSO committed theft, then that TSO will be convicted, terminated, and possibly incarcerated. Proof like surveillance camera recording, eyewitnesses, and circumstantial evidence. Speculating that it is the TSOs doing this is just that, speculation. Accusing a TSO of stealing something when he/she did not opens the accuser up to criminal charges like obstruction and to civil charges which the accused will most likely want to bear against the accuser. Just because they are TSOs does not deprive them of their rights.
Regarding your 2nd paragraph, it's a matter of human imperfection. I'm sorry to have to tell you this but people make
mistakes.@:-) In no way would I construe this to fall under any of the 3 categories you listed though there might be a few who do out of the 40K + employees TSA employs.
Regarding your 3rd paragraph, and I say again, I do not know.
Regarding your 4th paragraph, a non sequitur(it does not follow) statement. Let me make an equally fallacious statement: Since you started posting on this forum, TSA bashing has increased. Why do you suppose that is.
Regarding your last statement, I don't like TSA!
Jun 30, 2010, 1:51 am
#33
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 381
Regarding your 2nd paragraph, thanks for telling me something I already knew.
Jun 30, 2010, 7:20 am
#34
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Regarding your second statement, well, why did you ask if you did not want an answer or already knew the answer?
Jun 30, 2010, 11:17 pm
#35
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 381
"Regarding your first statement, well, what is the penalty for a TSA employee who fails to place a notice of inspection in a piece of baggage? Is there a penalty?
Regarding your second statement, well, why did you ask if you did not want an answer or already knew the answer?"
Regarding your second statement, well, why did you ask if you did not want an answer or already knew the answer?
"Regarding your 2nd paragraph, in post#31 the statement I made was in response to your statement in post#30:
"Since TSA took over airport screenings luggage theft has risen. Why do you suppose that is?"
You made this as a literal statement. I replied with a similar flawed statement but advised it was a fallacy, an argument which is invalid or which incorrectly infers a fact. Here was my fallacious statement:
"Since you started posting on this forum, TSA bashing has increased. Why do you suppose that is."
It was not a literal statement but meant to show you that your statement was a fallacy when you infer that TSA is the culprit for the rise in luggage thefts. There are many personnel with access to luggage, a TSO being only one. Also, where are your facts that luggage theft has been on the increase since TSA took over? If luggage theft was a big problem we'd be seeing many more threads about it in this forum. That has not been the case.
Then, in your post#32, because you took my fallacious statement literally, you made this statement:
"Regarding your last statement, I don't like TSA!"
A literal statement to which I replied literally as well:
"Regarding your 2nd paragraph, thanks for telling me something I already knew."
Got it now?
Jul 10, 2010, 4:38 pm
#37
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
FYI, if you lock your luggage with other than a TSA approved lock then several outcomes are possible.
1. Nothing
2. You get called back to unlock your bags
3. TSA cuts your lock
4. If the lock is not one that is subject to be cutting and they are unable to conduct any needed searches, you will arrive at your destination but your bag will not.
Thats not a complete list, I'd hate to be accused of providing false information, but is some of the possibilities. The best way to deal with it IMO is to either not lock the bag or get TSA locks. But you are more than welcome to do it any other way that suits your personal needs or opinions.
edit: Even if you use TSA locks, if they malfunction TSA may cut them as well.
Last edited by TSORon; Jul 10, 2010 at 5:57 pm Reason: Add the edit
Jul 10, 2010, 5:25 pm
#38
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,726
You may indeed sir. Complain to your hearts content.
FYI, if you lock your luggage with other than a TSA approved lock then several outcomes are possible.
1. Nothing
2. You get called back to unlock your bags
3. TSA cuts your lock
4. If the lock is not one that is subject to be cutting and they are unable to conduct any needed searches, you will arrive at your destination but your bag will not.
FYI, if you lock your luggage with other than a TSA approved lock then several outcomes are possible.
1. Nothing
2. You get called back to unlock your bags
3. TSA cuts your lock
4. If the lock is not one that is subject to be cutting and they are unable to conduct any needed searches, you will arrive at your destination but your bag will not.
Jul 10, 2010, 5:43 pm
#39
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,305
Are you then saying that airline employees, and baggage handlers have TSA keys to open TSA locks ? I thought that only TSA employees, or US ICE employees were authorized to open TSA locks in North America.
Jul 10, 2010, 5:57 pm
#40
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
Jul 13, 2010, 11:30 am
#41
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: ROP Gold
Posts: 1,292
Jul 13, 2010, 11:34 am
#42
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TSA approved locks can be opened without a key in just seconds.
TSA seems unable to keep control of the special keys needed to open TSA locks and just cut them.
Soft sided luggage with zippers are very common and this type of luggage can be opened easily even if locked.
Jul 13, 2010, 11:40 am
#43
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of ORD
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Posts: 9,154
Many of us do not lock our checked baggage. A few reasons.
TSA approved locks can be opened without a key in just seconds.
TSA seems unable to keep control of the special keys needed to open TSA locks and just cut them.
Soft sided luggage with zippers are very common and this type of luggage can be opened easily even if locked.
TSA approved locks can be opened without a key in just seconds.
TSA seems unable to keep control of the special keys needed to open TSA locks and just cut them.
Soft sided luggage with zippers are very common and this type of luggage can be opened easily even if locked.
Jul 13, 2010, 11:42 am
#44
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
Jul 13, 2010, 11:52 am
#45
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