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Old Dec 8, 09, 6:58 am   #1
 
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Question Flying with expired id or no id

I have a coworker who is traveling from SEA to Texas for xmas. He moved to Washington but never got a WA. id and his TX id is not expired and WA is making him jump through crazy mad hoops to get a new state id. I remember some on here someone saying that an id is not required by law to fly. I remember a few yrs back forgetting my id (post 9/11) but I had my wallet which contained my ss card (I think), debit card and credit card. The kind lady at AA marked my boarding pass and I was able to get through security with no hassle. So is flying without an id or even an expired on an option?
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Old Dec 8, 09, 8:19 am   #2
 
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If the TX ID isn't expired, I would just fly with that. No reason to mention to the TSA that he moved to WA.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 8:44 am   #3
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Old Dec 8, 09, 12:05 pm   #4
 
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papers, please! still no requirement to show ID; cross-reference related FT posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4funsea View Post
I remember some on here someone saying that an id is not required by law to fly. I remember a few yrs back forgetting my id (post 9/11) but I had my wallet which contained my ss card (I think), debit card and credit card. The kind lady at AA marked my boarding pass and I was able to get through security with no hassle. So is flying without an id or even an expired on an option?
Although TSA refuses to publish all the rules they require passengers to follow at airport checkpoints, from what we can distill from TSA press releases, blog posts, and other information they publish on the Web, it's relatively clear that your boarding pass is all the documentation that's ever required for domestic flights. It seems that passengers are not required to present documentation of their identities to TSA staff, and that doing so is not a condition of crossing the TSA checkpoint.

TSA's airport passenger identification policy changed on June 21, 2008.

Before June 21, 2008, the situation seemed to be: In order to proceed to the "secure area" of an airport after being stopped at a TSA barricade, each passenger must submit to a pat-down and search for metallic objects using a hand-held metal detector, along with a hand-searching of any carry-on baggage, unless he presents documentation of his identity (i.e., unless he "shows I.D."), in which case he must submit only to a search for metallic objects on his person via walk-through metal detector and search of any carry-on baggage using an X-ray machine. Back then, showing I.D. simply bought you a less-thorough search than you'd otherwise receive.

Beginning June 21, 2008: Each passenger still has the option of showing I.D. and participating in the less-thorough searches (walk-through metal detector and X-raying of carry-ons), but the alternative now involves not only being thoroughly searched for dangerous items, but also identifying oneself verbally and participating in an interrogation intended to verify one's identity (via phone call from Homeland Security headquarters). Initial reports from TSA indicated that while people who claimed that their government-issued I.D. card was misplaced or stolen would be allowed to take the alternate route through the checkpoint (with the questioning), those who willfully refused to show their papers would be barred from proceeding. It's unclear whether or not this is still the case, or if it was ever the case, as TSA's initial press release seems, based on information received from TSA via Freedom of Information Act request, to have been inaccurate.

In short, best we can tell, complying with TSA's "papers, please!" request is not necessary in order to fly domestically, it's simply a way to avoid the hassle of a thorough search for dangerous items and/or the hassle of providing convincing information in support of your claim to be who you say you are. This is a perfect system for people who wish to do harm in airports or on airplanes, since getting a falsified identification document (i.e., a "fake I.D.") is relatively simple, and presentation of one almost guarantees that TSA will look at someone with less scrutiny, making it easier for him to take weapons, explosives, or incendiaries past the security checkpoint.

The primary reason that TSA wants to know who you are is their desire to restrict people's movement based on Homeland Security blacklists. As did every government that has imposed totalitarian rules, TSA repeatedly tells us that their freedom-restricting policies are about safety, security, and rooting out subversives. Of course, this policy is really about extra-judicial punishment, allowing our executive branch of government to sidestep our judicial branch and punish someone for any reason or no reason at all.

For more on showing I.D. in the general sense, please see the Identity Project's "What's Wrong With Showing ID?" page.

For more on TSA airport I.D. policies, see also the following FT threads:
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Old Dec 8, 09, 12:07 pm   #5
 
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I think that may have been intended to read "has now expired" rather than "has not expired"
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Old Dec 8, 09, 2:20 pm   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4funsea View Post
I have a coworker who is traveling from SEA to Texas for xmas. He moved to Washington but never got a WA. id and his TX id is not expired and WA is making him jump through crazy mad hoops to get a new state id. I remember some on here someone saying that an id is not required by law to fly. I remember a few yrs back forgetting my id (post 9/11) but I had my wallet which contained my ss card (I think), debit card and credit card. The kind lady at AA marked my boarding pass and I was able to get through security with no hassle. So is flying without an id or even an expired on an option?
How is it that they are making him jump through hoops? As far as I can tell by reading the state's page, it's no different to get a new ID there than it is anywhere else in the USA.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 3:39 pm   #7
 
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Originally Posted by u2beez View Post
How is it that they are making him jump through hoops? As far as I can tell by reading the state's page, it's no different to get a new ID there than it is anywhere else in the USA.
I don't know. He said that he went in with his expired Tx id, ss card and birth cert and the lady at the counter said that wasn't good enough He said he had to bring in a high school year book pic (like that's ....ing official but I've been told the same when I lost my id) and college transcripts
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Old Dec 8, 09, 5:01 pm   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4funsea View Post
I don't know. He said that he went in with his expired Tx id, ss card and birth cert and the lady at the counter said that wasn't good enough He said he had to bring in a high school year book pic (like that's ....ing official but I've been told the same when I lost my id) and college transcripts
It also depends on how long the id has been expired. TSA will except identification expired up to 1 year. Even if the ID is over a year expired, bring it, if it's all you have. You will be questioned, but then proceed through security. But if he has any other ID, such as a SS card, credit cards, heck even a library card, bring those too (at this point other IDs not on the acceptable list are used to help confirm your ID, though most likely you will receive additional screening).
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Old Dec 8, 09, 5:21 pm   #9
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Originally Posted by SATTSO View Post
It also depends on how long the id has been expired. TSA will except identification expired up to 1 year. Even if the ID is over a year expired, bring it, if it's all you have. You will be questioned, but then proceed through security. But if he has any other ID, such as a SS card, credit cards, heck even a library card, bring those too (at this point other IDs not on the acceptable list are used to help confirm your ID, though most likely you will receive additional screening).
And if the person is properly screened and does not have any WEI just why is identity important?

Why does TSA have no answer for this question?
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Old Dec 8, 09, 5:43 pm   #10
 
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Originally Posted by SATTSO View Post
It also depends on how long the id has been expired. TSA will except identification expired up to 1 year.
TSA's Oops I leaked the SOP Section 2A-2 C. 1. b. i.: "An expired ID is not valid for the purposes of this check."

Unless the pax is one of the 535 Chosen Ones. Attachment 4-7: United States Congress Identification. footnote: "May or may not have an expiration date." (OT: are they really in office for life?)

Some IDs have expiration dates, some do not. All IDs are different. Just accept that. Except in Texas.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 5:56 pm   #11
 
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Originally Posted by u2beez View Post
How is it that they are making him jump through hoops? As far as I can tell by reading the state's page, it's no different to get a new ID there than it is anywhere else in the USA.
My uninformed thought: every agency has people who like making life a living #@$! for anyone else; state DMVs are certainly no exception to the rule.

I have a friend who recently moved to my state and had an absolutely awful time getting new plates for his car. The clerk required not only proof of insurance from the insurance company, but it had to be brought in with the envelope used to mail it to him. Go figure.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 6:07 pm   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaflyer View Post
Attachment 4-7: United States Congress Identification. footnote: "May or may not have an expiration date." (OT: are they really in office for life?)
No, but in some cases, it sure feels like it.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 6:15 pm   #13
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins View Post
My uninformed thought: every agency has people who like making life a living #@$! for anyone else; state DMVs are certainly no exception to the rule.

I have a friend who recently moved to my state and had an absolutely awful time getting new plates for his car. The clerk required not only proof of insurance from the insurance company, but it had to be brought in with the envelope used to mail it to him. Go figure.
Sounds like this clerk worked for the TSA in another life.
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Old Dec 8, 09, 6:37 pm   #14
 
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Wow a yearbook photo?

Anyways, I had this experience last june, I was upfront about my id being expired, brought my BC and CC's and I was allowed to go through. Needless to say when I got back home, I got my license renewed :-)
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Old Dec 8, 09, 6:53 pm   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaflyer View Post
TSA's Oops I leaked the SOP Section 2A-2 C. 1. b. i.: "An expired ID is not valid for the purposes of this check."

Unless the pax is one of the 535 Chosen Ones. Attachment 4-7: United States Congress Identification. footnote: "May or may not have an expiration date." (OT: are they really in office for life?)

Some IDs have expiration dates, some do not. All IDs are different. Just accept that. Except in Texas.
Huh? Expired IDs are good to go through the checkpoint, despite what you have read.
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