I flew into JFK and took the AirTrain to Jamaica Station where I picked up the LIRR to Long Island.
I saw a "Welcome to New York" type side on the Jamaica Station side of the AirTrain. Given I love to take photos, I pulled my camera out.
I turn on the camera and start to aim and zoom for the sign.
A "rent-a-cop", or private security guard if you prefer, quickly approaches me in a threatening manner as if I were a criminal.
The guard, who claimed to be an employee of the (New York & New Jersey) Port Authority berates me that I cannot take photographs. I receive a stern verbal harassment at which point I interrupt him and ask, "tourists can't take photographs?"
He feeds me a line that I need to have written permission from the Port Authority and that if I continued, he would have me arrested. He was on a power trip and his hands appeared in a threatening manner as if he was going to yank the camera away from me (a compact, yet higher end 12.1 megapixel digital camera).
At this point I was standing a few feet away from my roll-a-board bag and he continues to berate me for "abandoning my bag" - yes, I set it down to take the photo, the area was relatively empty, and it was just a few feet away within my range of vision; hardly "abandoning" or leaving "luggage unattended" ...
Anyways, I plan on calling the Port Authority tomorrow, don't know if it will do any good. Guard claimed it was illegal for me to take photos and I would be arrested if I did.
Great way to treat visitors to NYC.
I left, not wanting to make things worse. Will be using AirTrain again later this week.
Programs: CO Platinum 1K, SPG Platinum, HH Gold, National Executive Elite, Platinum TSA Hater
Posts: 23,534
Unless he was an actual cop, you could have just fingered him and told him to get the hell away and buzz off. He has no right to take your camera, detain you or do anything else - like a screener, all he can do is call for the PA police, and by the time they show up, you should be long gone.
__________________ Rich and 50 is the same as middle-class and 30
Photo restrictions in and of a public place are truly ridiculous and a waste of an effort, but that won't stop the clowns from playing clown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bocastephen
Unless he was an actual cop, you could have just fingered him and told him to get the hell away and buzz off. He has no right to take your camera, detain you or do anything else - like a screener, all he can do is call for the PA police, and by the time they show up, you should be long gone.
There are almost always some cops around the Jamaica station area used by the AirTrain, LIRR and NYC Subway, but I don't think the cops around there think too highly of the non-cops playing cop around there. A one-minute or two-minute walk away is the furthest I've usually been away from cops there regardless of when I am using the AirTrain, LIRR or subway there.
__________________
Like TSA, DL SkyMiles management treats airline customers as if they are the enemy or sheep to be fleeced and it shows.
I've never understood this. At one time I managed physical security at a major commercial office tower complex. In addition to serving as a financial hub for the country, this commercial complex was also a minor tourist attraction. Photography was certainly not banned. If my staff witnessed people taking photographs of the buildings or things of architectural significance, it was a non-issue. The only time any action would be taken was if a person was seen photographing or sketching areas that would not interest the general public (e.g., mechanical areas, entrances to the underground car parks). One of my staff would approach the person in a non-confrontational manner and ask him what he's up to. It was usually part of a school project. We never did find that elusive terrorist.
Programs: DL PM, RW, SC. Coffee isn't a drug, it's a vitamin.
Posts: 12,671
And when the real LEO arrives, simply explain in a calm voice that the rent-a-cop identified himself as a police officer, and ask the LEO if it is legal for the guy to claim to be an officer. (Gee, isn't it against the law to impersonate a police officer?)
I flew into JFK and took the AirTrain to Jamaica Station where I picked up the LIRR to Long Island.
I saw a "Welcome to New York" type side on the Jamaica Station side of the AirTrain. Given I love to take photos, I pulled my camera out.
I turn on the camera and start to aim and zoom for the sign.
A "rent-a-cop", or private security guard if you prefer, quickly approaches me in a threatening manner as if I were a criminal.
The guard, who claimed to be an employee of the (New York & New Jersey) Port Authority berates me that I cannot take photographs. I receive a stern verbal harassment at which point I interrupt him and ask, "tourists can't take photographs?"
He feeds me a line that I need to have written permission from the Port Authority and that if I continued, he would have me arrested. He was on a power trip and his hands appeared in a threatening manner as if he was going to yank the camera away from me (a compact, yet higher end 12.1 megapixel digital camera).
At this point I was standing a few feet away from my roll-a-board bag and he continues to berate me for "abandoning my bag" - yes, I set it down to take the photo, the area was relatively empty, and it was just a few feet away within my range of vision; hardly "abandoning" or leaving "luggage unattended" ...
Anyways, I plan on calling the Port Authority tomorrow, don't know if it will do any good. Guard claimed it was illegal for me to take photos and I would be arrested if I did.
Great way to treat visitors to NYC.
I left, not wanting to make things worse. Will be using AirTrain again later this week.
SDF_Traveler
The best way to handle this is to set your face to stern, say in a commanding voice "Go AWAY!" If he persists on lying about photo restrictions say in a commanding voice "STOP LYING, Go AWAY".
By this point you will either have cowed him or made him mad. Either is to your advantage. If he is mad he may attempt to restrain you. At this point a good throat jab or other debilitating move is warranted.
Once he is on the floor and you have relieved him of any weapons (mace, taser, baton etc.) call 911 and explain that you were attacked by a crazed person in a uniform.
The best way to handle this is to set your face to stern, say in a commanding voice "Go AWAY!" If he persists on lying about photo restrictions say in a commanding voice "STOP LYING, Go AWAY".
By this point you will either have cowed him or made him mad. Either is to your advantage. If he is mad he may attempt to restrain you. At this point a good throat jab or other debilitating move is warranted.
Once he is on the floor and you have relieved him of any weapons (mace, taser, baton etc.) call 911 and explain that you were attacked by a crazed person in a uniform.
Ta da
The only restriction I saw in regards to port authority and photography was in regards to professional photography. That requires a permit. Found that when the bit about the Statue of Liberty frisk and confiscate link was up.
Tell the guy that you are an amateur and to leave you alone because it isn't a professional shoot.
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, Lifetime Platinum, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Travelers Aid JFK Volunteer
Posts: 8,074
I'm very sorry to hear about the OP's situation. The guard was being very unprofessional and probably was enjoying a power trip, violating procedures in the process. You should have gotten the guard's name and asked to speak to a supervisor. Or called a LEO if the guard was being aggressive and/or demanding that you surrender your camera.
By the way, if you're talking about the "red jacket" or "red vest" agents working inside the AirTrain stations, they do NOT work for the Port Authority. They actually work for Bombardier Transportation (the German-based company that built the AirTrain light-rail system). If you look carefully, you will see that their ID badges are not issued by the Port Authority. (which also means that these employees probably haven't been vetted/background-checked by the Port Authority either)
Photography of many transportation-related facilities is restricted or prohibited under various federal/state/city regulations because of security concerns in the post-9/11 world. (see the big signs on the NYC-area bridges, for example) Many airport authorities and airlines have similar policies regarding photography of buildings, vehicles, aircraft, procedures, and personnel. According to a random website, AirTrain does not allow photography. AA allows its customers to take photos, but only personal photos (i.e. photos of the kiddies sitting in their seat on the plane), not photos of the check-in counter or out the window of the tarmac.
This is for real. I have been prohibited from taking photos at the AA Admirals Club (of the food/beverage setup). I thought it was ridiculous, but they explained the policy to me: "you cannot take photos except personal photos of yourself and people traveling with you."
I am an amateur photography enthusiast, and so I sympathize with the situation. I also love to document my travels, including of the aircraft, lounges, and so on. So, my advice is to be discreet and try not to look "suspicious." (Avoid standing at the terminal window with a huge zoom lens and dark glasses, etc.) I've gotten so I use my iPhone for this kind of photography so as not to attact attention. I save my Nikon for later.
If a security guard approaches you and claims that you cannot take pictures, my suggestion is: don't make a big fuss; just leave. Don't surrender your camera or let the person look at your camera or delete pictures. Just be polite and leave the scene. The guard is just doing his/her job. No reason to escalate the situation over a few snapshots. Find a new place to take pictures.
If a LEO approaches you and claims that you are violating photography regulations, apologize and follow instructions so that you will not be detained (within the limits of your constitutional rights, of course).
Programs: ex-FL Elite, DL 4MM/PM, CO Plat, ex-VS FC Silver, UA 1K
Posts: 1,177
Don't know if this is relevant or not, but the City of New York Police Department issued an Operations Order Number 14 on April 3, 2009 in regards to the "Investigation of Individuals engage in Suspicious Photography and Video Surveillance". This may pertain to the OP's issues, but I am not sure as it was on a PANY&NJ public area whether it would cover PANY&NJ police. I have a copy of the Order but I do not have the weblink to it. It does say that photography and video taping of public places, etc., are all common activities in New York City, and practically all such instances will have no connection to unlawful conduct. It gives a directive to police on how to handle such situations as the OPs, but it does not ban or make photography and/or Video Surveillance illegal, requiring an arrest.
Maybe just another case of a power-tripping rent-a-cop!
Photography of many transportation-related facilities is restricted or prohibited under various federal/state/city regulations because of security concerns in the post-9/11 world. (see the big signs on the NYC-area bridges, for example) Many airport authorities and airlines have similar policies regarding photography of buildings, vehicles, aircraft, procedures, and personnel. According to a random website, AirTrain does not allow photography. AA allows its customers to take photos, but only personal photos (i.e. photos of the kiddies sitting in their seat on the plane), not photos of the check-in counter or out the window of the tarmac.
This is for real. I have been prohibited from taking photos at the AA Admirals Club (of the food/beverage setup).
So, my advice is to be discreet and try not to look "suspicious." (Avoid standing at the terminal window with a huge zoom lens and dark glasses, etc.) I've gotten so I use my iPhone for this kind of photography so as not to attact attention. I save my Nikon for later.
If a security guard approaches you and claims that you cannot take pictures, my suggestion is: don't make a big fuss; just leave. Don't surrender your camera or let the person look at your camera or delete pictures. Just be polite and leave the scene. The guard is just doing his/her job. No reason to escalate the situation over a few snapshots. Find a new place to take pictures.
If a LEO approaches you and claims that you are violating photography regulations, apologize and follow instructions so that you will not be detained (within the limits of your constitutional rights, of course).
Generally, if you are in a place where the pubic is authorized to be, you can take all the pictures you want for non-commercial use. While AA can say that you can't take pictures in the Admirals Club or on the plane since you are on AA's property, the check-in counters would be a different story.
I question the legality of the signs about not taking pictures of NYC bridges. I'm sure that regulation is violated every day. What airport authorities have an enforceable prohibition? The one that BWI refers to isn't even related to airport operations.
As for discreet, why should I be? That shows how ridiculous these bans are. They are not enforceable except against the obvious. If I am within my legal rights, I will shoot and then take pictures of anybody that approaches me with the intent to stop me.
__________________ "The goal of terrorism, you see, is not to make a nation bleed but to make it fear." - Leonard Pitts, Jr.
Don't know if this is relevant or not, but the City of New York Police Department issued an Operations Order Number 14 on April 3, 2009 in regards to the "Investigation of Individuals engage in Suspicious Photography and Video Surveillance". This may pertain to the OP's issues, but I am not sure as it was on a PANY&NJ public area whether it would cover PANY&NJ police. I have a copy of the Order but I do not have the weblink to it. It does say that photography and video taping of public places, etc., are all common activities in New York City, and practically all such instances will have no connection to unlawful conduct. It gives a directive to police on how to handle such situations as the OPs, but it does not ban or make photography and/or Video Surveillance illegal, requiring an arrest.
Maybe just another case of a power-tripping rent-a-cop!
Photography of many transportation-related facilities is restricted or prohibited under various federal/state/city regulations because of security concerns in the post-9/11 world. (see the big signs on the NYC-area bridges, for example) Many airport authorities and airlines have similar policies regarding photography of buildings, vehicles, aircraft, procedures, and personnel. According to a random website, AirTrain does not allow photography. AA allows its customers to take photos, but only personal photos (i.e. photos of the kiddies sitting in their seat on the plane), not photos of the check-in counter or out the window of the tarmac.
This is for real. I have been prohibited from taking photos at the AA Admirals Club (of the food/beverage setup). I thought it was ridiculous, but they explained the policy to me: "you cannot take photos except personal photos of yourself and people traveling with you."
I am an amateur photography enthusiast, and so I sympathize with the situation. I also love to document my travels, including of the aircraft, lounges, and so on. So, my advice is to be discreet and try not to look "suspicious." (Avoid standing at the terminal window with a huge zoom lens and dark glasses, etc.) I've gotten so I use my iPhone for this kind of photography so as not to attact attention. I save my Nikon for later.
If a security guard approaches you and claims that you cannot take pictures, my suggestion is: don't make a big fuss; just leave. Don't surrender your camera or let the person look at your camera or delete pictures. Just be polite and leave the scene. The guard is just doing his/her job. No reason to escalate the situation over a few snapshots. Find a new place to take pictures.
If a LEO approaches you and claims that you are violating photography regulations, apologize and follow instructions so that you will not be detained (within the limits of your constitutional rights, of course).
Airlines as a private company can have restrictions on photography, airports as a Government entity can also have restrictions in CERTAIN areas. Areas normally open to the public (this includes the sterile area) at the airport can not have restrictions on non commercial photography, that pesky First Amendment gets in the way. (note: when I say restrictions I do not mean them not allowing you to climb on a planter to take the shot)
