PV Alert: Can I Take Photos at the Checkpoint and Airport?
May 11, 2009, 6:22 pm
#121
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
I suspect it's a reaction to posters here and on Propaganda Village ripping the TSA a new one about this issue.
May 12, 2009, 7:45 am
#122
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
I took Bob's advice and used TSA's "Got Feedback?" form to ask about photography policies at each of 50 major U.S. airports.
May 15, 2009, 6:21 pm
#123
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
I found a photo of me in front of a "the Welcome to ISP" type sign - behind that is the checkpoint and in the background you can see the checkpoint and the no photography sign.
May 15, 2009, 6:33 pm
#124
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NorCal
Posts: 658
Hahaha. Post it. Blur out your face if you need to.
May 15, 2009, 8:18 pm
#125
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
I'll do that; I have all the photos saved on a NAS server and I'll access them from my Mac in a bit.
Will use photoshop to re-size the file, clean it up, and upload it. Have a few other interesting ones.
Currently running disk utility on the Mac. My PowerBook is throwing fits over disk permissions at the moment.
Will use photoshop to re-size the file, clean it up, and upload it. Have a few other interesting ones.
Currently running disk utility on the Mac. My PowerBook is throwing fits over disk permissions at the moment.
Last edited by SDF_Traveler; May 15, 2009 at 8:24 pm
May 16, 2009, 5:01 pm
#126
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
Note the No Photography Sign in the Background
This is at ISP (eek, not a great pic of me .. but oh well): note the "No Photographs" sign in the background at the checkpoint.
May 16, 2009, 5:10 pm
#128
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
I wanted to go to the airport's website to see if there was any mention of photography restrictions but, damn what an ugly site. http://www.macarthurairport.com/
May 17, 2009, 12:41 pm
#131
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
Regardless, I don't think the sign should be there per TSA guidelines on photography, unless there is a local, municipal law which overrides the policy laid out on PV.
Perhaps I'll give the airport a call or make an inquiry via the TSA website to see what the photography policy is, as Phil has done with other airports.
With respect to the photo I posted, the actual distance between me and the checkpoint is further than it looks because I cropped out the sign saying "welcome to ISP" when I cropped a portrait photo into a landscape 800x600 pix pic.
Just had a look at the ISP website -- :eek! Hopefully it was done in-house and they didn't pay anyone for it.
Jun 24, 2009, 3:05 pm
#132
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
minor update on 50-airport survey of photography policies
I don't have time for a comprehensive update or to clean up this thread (an admin merged several consecutive posts, dumping airport responses into my "cause for concern" post, fouling up my "index post"), but note that I have not received any response from IAH or HOU (Houston International and Hobby), and that the response rate has not changed more than 2% - 4% (one or two airports; I think it hasn't changed at all) since my 4/20 update so a little fewer than half responded, and about half of those provided the information I requested (authoratative answer to the question of whether photography in the airport is restricted or a referral to a specific person who should be able to provide that answer).
Note also that Bob Burns at TSA, who first said that photography of publicly-visible TSA computer monitors at airport checkpoints was discouraged, then later said it was prohibited, still has not said whether such photography is unlawful. On May 18, 2009, in the comment thread for the "Can I Take Photos at the Checkpoint and Airport?" post (remember, you must load that first in order to load the following links to get directly to specific comments), Bob responded by citing 49 CFR Part 1520.5(b)(9)(vi). I promptly responded:
Despite repeated requests for him to do so, he has not responded. Note that despite what the villiage idiots would have you believe, he has not answered the question, and I do not continue to ask "because I don't like the answer" (common refrain over there).
Interestingly, he now seems to be refusing comments that reference this question, even when they are on-topic and in compliance with published comment rules. For instance, despite my submitting it five times and seeing other comments approved between submisstions, the following comment has not been approved (for the "TSA Paperless Boarding Pass Pilot Expanding" post):
Good questions, no?
I have some ideas about creating a method of sending a question or comment to all airports via automated submission of the "Got Feedback?" form, then automatically collecting and publishing responses, but there's probably only about a 20% chance that I'm going to find time to do it. Are others interested in such a thing? I think it would be nice to allow people to query TSA airport representatives and automatically publish responses for others to see, possibly in conjunction with my now-barely-useful TSA FAQ site. TSA should be happy to avoid needing to repeatedly answer the same questions, but I don't see them reporting answers to questions people frequently ask.
Note also that Bob Burns at TSA, who first said that photography of publicly-visible TSA computer monitors at airport checkpoints was discouraged, then later said it was prohibited, still has not said whether such photography is unlawful. On May 18, 2009, in the comment thread for the "Can I Take Photos at the Checkpoint and Airport?" post (remember, you must load that first in order to load the following links to get directly to specific comments), Bob responded by citing 49 CFR Part 1520.5(b)(9)(vi). I promptly responded:
Bob, thanks for the reference to the definition of Sensitive Security Information which states that many things including "any electronic image shown on any screening equipment monitor, including threat images and descriptions of threat images for threat image projection systems" are SSI.
Is it unlawful for people to photograph computer monitors that are visible from publicly-accessible areas of TSA's airport checkpoints, or is it simply a condition that you place on people's ability to cross your airport checkpoints? If it is unlawful, please cite the law.
Why would you attempt to prohibit -- via law or via your super-secret rules that all your lowest-level staff are shown but that you hide from the public -- photography of something that thousands of people can see when they walk through an airport?
Is it unlawful for people to photograph computer monitors that are visible from publicly-accessible areas of TSA's airport checkpoints, or is it simply a condition that you place on people's ability to cross your airport checkpoints? If it is unlawful, please cite the law.
Why would you attempt to prohibit -- via law or via your super-secret rules that all your lowest-level staff are shown but that you hide from the public -- photography of something that thousands of people can see when they walk through an airport?
Interestingly, he now seems to be refusing comments that reference this question, even when they are on-topic and in compliance with published comment rules. For instance, despite my submitting it five times and seeing other comments approved between submisstions, the following comment has not been approved (for the "TSA Paperless Boarding Pass Pilot Expanding" post):
Bob, when Lynn posted about this last September, I asked the following (she never responded): Assuming that the information on these bar-coded boarding passes is digitally signed (as Lynn stated), who holds the signing key? Every airline? Does each have its own key? How are they protected? If a key is revoked due to security compromise, what will happen to passengers who hold boarding passes signed with the revoked -- and therefore no longer trustworthy -- key?
Also, despite repeated requests for you to do so, you never answered the question about photographing your monitors. First, you told us it was discouraged. Later, you told us it was prohibited. Is it unlawful to do so, or will doing so simply disqualify someone from being allowed to cross your airport checkpoints? If it's unlawful, could you please cite the law that makes it so?
Also, despite repeated requests for you to do so, you never answered the question about photographing your monitors. First, you told us it was discouraged. Later, you told us it was prohibited. Is it unlawful to do so, or will doing so simply disqualify someone from being allowed to cross your airport checkpoints? If it's unlawful, could you please cite the law that makes it so?
I have some ideas about creating a method of sending a question or comment to all airports via automated submission of the "Got Feedback?" form, then automatically collecting and publishing responses, but there's probably only about a 20% chance that I'm going to find time to do it. Are others interested in such a thing? I think it would be nice to allow people to query TSA airport representatives and automatically publish responses for others to see, possibly in conjunction with my now-barely-useful TSA FAQ site. TSA should be happy to avoid needing to repeatedly answer the same questions, but I don't see them reporting answers to questions people frequently ask.
Aug 4, 2009, 11:45 am
#133
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
cross-reference related TSA blog post
On August 3, 2009, Bob Burns at TSA blogged (in a post titled "Got Feedback: Happy Birthday!") about the success of the "Got Feedback?" program he administers, then posted the following comment:
I have submitted two comments there that link to this thread and explain the 50% response rate that I observed using "Got Feedback?", but neither has been approved. Comments submitted by other people after mine have been approved.
If you have sent something to Got Feedback and requested a response but have not heard anything, please send me an e-mail at [email protected] so I can figure out what's going on. 'll work with you and the CSM to get your feedback addressed.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
Aug 4, 2009, 12:55 pm
#134
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
My comment about ISP is in the thread and I have now sent an e-mail to Blogger Bob about the matter. Why this wasn't followed up on before when I brought it to their attention in prior threads, I don't know. Why all the extra hoops to jump through?
With the e-mail, I guess I have now have been outed to Blogger Bob.
With the e-mail, I guess I have now have been outed to Blogger Bob.
Aug 4, 2009, 1:13 pm
#135
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
sneakemail or Mixmaster for semi-anonymous or really anonymous e-mail
Not with a little bit of care, it doesn't. I've used Sneakemail for almost 10 years, mostly to provide "throwaway" e-mail addresses so that mail sent to them is forwarded to me, but I don't provide my real address to the untrusted party. You can also send replies through them. The basic service is free, and has worked flawlessly for me.
For true anonymity, you'd need to send mail through the Mixmaster network or similar.
For true anonymity, you'd need to send mail through the Mixmaster network or similar.