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Old Feb 22, 09, 5:43 pm   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Flaflyer View Post
Even IF the Amish can produce a photo and get a passport, they cannot FLY to Canada, as the result of a lawsuit filed by some disgruntled Canadian citizens.

Seems they object to the overflights of those horse drawn 747s. . .
no longer a problem:

apparently the British will soon have a horse that's capable of carrying
both the A380 and the 747 on its back at the same time... in fact, I think
it can pull Queen Mary 2 across the Atlantic quite easily.


http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/cu...er630-1784.jpg

The horse in question will stand 164-feet tall... or 33 times bigger than
the average horses.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesi...allinger-horse
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Old Feb 23, 09, 11:54 am   #17
 
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You can find quite a few legitimate Amish e-commerce sites on-line. There has been significant Amish acceptance of the internet as a means to sell goods. Many of them have also embraced solar generated electricity. It's not ok to plug into the power grid but if god provides sun and sun provides electricity then electricity is apparently ok. I am pretty sure they could find a way to justify a passport if it were necessary. And if they were born on US soil they are most certainly eligible to apply for a US passport.
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Old Feb 23, 09, 12:12 pm   #18
 
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Willingness to be photographed is not a hard and fast rule. Some sects may discourage it, others may allow it. It has to do with the extent to which photography can lead to "worldliness", i.e., if you allow photos do people become too concerned with their outwardly appearance rather than focused on God and family. There isn't a fear that the photo will "steal their soul".

I can't see any reason why an Amish person needing a passport (to visit family, etc.) would have a problem with getting a passport photo.

Those who live in places with tourist industries avoid photos because they don't like being treated like the scenery.

The bigger issue is likely to be the fact that many of them don't have birth certificates, i.e., home births and living apart from the rest of the world, means that many parents don't bother getting one.
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Old Feb 23, 09, 12:14 pm   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Roy2CDG View Post
If everyone will need a US passport to travel to/from Canada, does that
DHS requirement include the Amish?

Are the Amish eligible to apply for US passports?

The reason I'm wondernig is that Native Americans can use their tribal ID
or document in lieu of US passport... is it the same for the Amish?
I would think that Native Americans are also eligible to obtain a US passport, even if there are cases where they might be able to get by without it.
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Old Feb 23, 09, 1:42 pm   #20
 
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Interesting question. My guess is they can, but if it goes against their beliefs they either have to adapt or go without a passport. Most people will adapt. ; )
I fully expect them not to get passports as they do very little if any international traveling.
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Old Feb 23, 09, 3:48 pm   #21
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I fully expect them not to get passports as they do very little if any international traveling.
I'm sure you can cross into Canada by buggy
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Old Feb 23, 09, 5:08 pm   #22
 
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The bigger issue is likely to be the fact that many of them don't have birth certificates, i.e., home births and living apart from the rest of the world, means that many parents don't bother getting one.
There is no absolute requirement you present a birth certificate to get a passport. The Dept. of State has a fair amount of discretion on a case by case basis in what it will accept as evidence of your rightful citizenship. All you have to do is present enough evidence to convince them. I presume a few notations in a the back cover of bible, three village elders as witnesses, one local midwife, one Amish preacher and a couple of horse buggies parked in the parking lot will be adequate proof of identity and citizenship.
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Old Feb 24, 09, 9:43 pm   #23
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Originally Posted by Mabuk dan gila View Post
There is no absolute requirement you present a birth certificate to get a passport. The Dept. of State has a fair amount of discretion on a case by case basis in what it will accept as evidence of your rightful citizenship. All you have to do is present enough evidence to convince them. I presume a few notations in a the back cover of bible, three village elders as witnesses, one local midwife, one Amish preacher and a couple of horse buggies parked in the parking lot will be adequate proof of identity and citizenship.
That is correct and that would be more than sufficient for proof of identity and/or citizenship (as applicable).
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Old Feb 25, 09, 12:16 pm   #24
 
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Right. A friend's family decided to treat their matriarch (age 92) to a vacation in Italy. She doesn't have a birth certificate. But she does have the family Bible which lists the births and weddings of the family going back 3 generations before her. The went--in person--to the Philadelphia Passport agency because they didn't want to risk leaving such a valuable part of family history with some postal or court clerk. The Bible and the letter of "No record" of a birth certificate served as proof of citizenship.
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Old Feb 25, 09, 12:46 pm   #25
 
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Right. A friend's family decided to treat their matriarch (age 92) to a vacation in Italy. She doesn't have a birth certificate. But she does have the family Bible which lists the births and weddings of the family going back 3 generations before her. The went--in person--to the Philadelphia Passport agency because they didn't want to risk leaving such a valuable part of family history with some postal or court clerk. The Bible and the letter of "No record" of a birth certificate served as proof of citizenship.
And I sent in a birth certificate complete with the raised state seal, and because the moron at city hall where I applied couldn't operate a copy machine and the copy of my drivers license was too dark or light for the state department to read, I had to send back copies of my social security card, health insurance card, car title, notarized affidavits signed by my parents and any other official documents with my name on them to prove that I'm a citizen of the US and I am who I say I am before getting a passport.
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Old Feb 25, 09, 12:48 pm   #26
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Interesting question. My guess is they can, but if it goes against their beliefs they either have to adapt or go without a passport. Most people will adapt. ; )
I think that would be a First Amendment issue: A government regulation effectively makes them prisoners with in the US because of their religious beliefs.
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Old Feb 25, 09, 3:06 pm   #27
 
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I think that would be a First Amendment issue: A government regulation effectively makes them prisoners with in the US because of their religious beliefs.
Not really.

If another country admits them, the U.S. will allow them back. Their issue will be with the receiving country.
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Old Feb 25, 09, 3:21 pm   #28
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Not really.

If another country admits them, the U.S. will allow them back. Their issue will be with the receiving country.
I'm not sure how it is at the ports, but airlines check your passports before leaving the US now.
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Old Feb 25, 09, 3:28 pm   #29
 
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I'm not sure how it is at the ports, but airlines check your passports before leaving the US now.
They have to, they are responsible for return transportation if the person is not admitted.
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Old Feb 25, 09, 3:35 pm   #30
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They have to, they are responsible for return transportation if the person is not admitted.
Indeed. And that amounts to a de facto prohibition of exit without a passport.
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