MSN TSA misses large Swiss Army Knife in Carry-on after HAND CHECK!!!
Just wrapped up a three week tour this past Saturday night in Madison, WI and flew home yesterday morning. Originally myself and two of the other musicians were going to ride the tour bus back home, however at the last moment our boss decided to "reward" us by purchasing flights so we could avoid the 2+ day drive.
Long story short, we arrived at MSN very early Sunday morning (about 4:30am) for our 6am flights, and we were the first people to go through the security checkpoint (we actually had to wait about 20 minutes before they opened). As all of our other belongings are riding home on the tour bus, we all were traveling with only one carry-on each. Our keyboardist's laptop bag got called out for a "bag check" after passing through the x-ray. An agent went through it pretty thoroughly (I was standing next to him gathering my stuff), and nothing was found so off we went.
Later as we were sitting at the gate my buddy was going through his bag looking for something and found his rather large Swiss Army knife in the side pocket! We couldn't believe it made it through undiscovered! He was quite happy as he completely forgot it was in there and would've been bummed to lose it, but we were both reminded instantly how big the holes are in the TSA's fishing net.
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I've posted about this exact thing before, too. I had a KISS folding knife missed in a hand-search (and missed by several x-rays), and a friend had a larger folding knife missed through several hand-searches, including those done at the gate.
In reality, the knife isn't a threat, but that doesn't excuse the TSA missing it, either.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drummingcraig
but we were both reminded instantly how big the holes are in the TSA's fishing net.
Actually it's big holes in their Swiss Cheese.
Nothing wrong- the TSA did everything they were supposed to. They looked vigilant, thorough, and decisive, and they showed how hard they are working to keep us safe. That's all that matters. Actually stopping real threats is besides the point.
(and anyway, a swiss army knife isn't a real threat).
As long as they prevented you from getting into the sterile area without any liquids they have prevented the chance of a terrorist event from occuring. Its moments like this when I wonder if they are watching for the wrong items. Like 4oz containers
Nothing wrong- the TSA did everything they were supposed to. They looked vigilant, thorough, and decisive, and they showed how hard they are working to keep us safe. That's all that matters. Actually stopping real threats is besides the point.
(and anyway, a swiss army knife isn't a real threat).
Yeah and niether were box cutters. A blade is a blade.
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I am no fan of the TSA searches. But this post is virtually irrelevant. The fact remains that there was a 95% (probably 99.9% chance) that they *would* find the knife. No terrorist will plan something where there is a 99.9% chance of failure. The fact that a random knife or gun gets into the "sterile" area has no impact on the theory of security being used by TSA and its superiors.
I am no fan of the TSA searches. But this post is virtually irrelevant. The fact remains that there was a 95% (probably 99.9% chance) that they *would* find the knife. No terrorist will plan something where there is a 99.9% chance of failure. The fact that a random knife or gun gets into the "sterile" area has no impact on the theory of security being used by TSA and its superiors.
Irrelevant???
This wasn't a small pocket knife in a large fully loaded duffle bag. This was the largest/widest Swiss Army knife one can obtain in a messenger style computer bag.
I think your odds are way off.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan315
As long as they prevented you from getting into the sterile area without any liquids they have prevented the chance of a terrorist event from occuring. Its moments like this when I wonder if they are watching for the wrong items. Like 4oz containers
No, I think the real security was provided by ensuring the name on the driver's license or whatever acceptable ID was presented matched the name on the boarding pass. To paraphrase Larry the Cable Guy (who would make a great TSO) ... "That's y'alls real securittee right thar !!!"
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During a long (loooong) flight delay, I once went to the Morton's near ORD. I had some leftovers and decided to take them with me in case I got hungry on the plane. I carried them onboard back to DC and, when I got home, noticed that Morton's had included a full-sized, metal steak knife in the bag that they gave me - it was not the kind that they use in their restaurants, but it also was not disposable - it was metal, sharp, and the blade was a few inches long. Again, a pretty small sample set, but I must admit I was surprised by the lapse considering all the hassle that people get over a bottle of conditioner, etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbrower
I am no fan of the TSA searches. But this post is virtually irrelevant. The fact remains that there was a 95% (probably 99.9% chance) that they *would* find the knife. No terrorist will plan something where there is a 99.9% chance of failure. The fact that a random knife or gun gets into the "sterile" area has no impact on the theory of security being used by TSA and its superiors.
And what are you basing this on? Some hard statistics provided by TSA Or just a guess on your part? To be honest you have no idea, the TSA has no idea and I have no idea the likelihood one could sneak a weapon past security. We have no idea how many instances of a "random knife or gun gets into the sterile area". We are totally dependent on random reports such as this one. How many go unreported? Maybe a few, maybe hundreds. But to make such a blanket statement based on nothing serves no purpose whatsoever.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan315
Yeah and niether were box cutters. A blade is a blade.
So why are things like scissors permitted on board and why are knives served with dinner in premium cabins? Of course, the crew would have access to cutlery as well. Should that be banned too? After all, someone could take that knife ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samftla
And what are you basing this on? Some hard statistics provided by TSA Or just a guess on your part? To be honest you have no idea, the TSA has no idea and I have no idea the likelihood one could sneak a weapon past security. We have no idea how many instances of a "random knife or gun gets into the sterile area". We are totally dependent on random reports such as this one. How many go unreported? Maybe a few, maybe hundreds. But to make such a blanket statement based on nothing serves no purpose whatsoever.
SAM
Well, I know in the early days of TSA, Mrs. NY-FLA had 2 forgotten and identical supersharp paring knives in her carry-on. TSA found one, but on their bag check missed the other. The only other knife incident I've been involved with at TSA was their refusal to allow me to carry on a multipurpose tool with a 3/4" knife blade. Hard statistics you want? Depending on how you look at it, in my knife test experience set, TSA was either 67% successful, or 50% successful but either way was totally ineffective. (Not that any of the knives IME are any more a credible threat than numerous permitted items or items commonly found on board.)
Where does TSA score near 100%? Forcing shoes off for the non-exempt suckers who pay for this idiocy, and finding containers marked with a number >3.4 oz. Fluid oz. or weight oz? Does not matter to these guardians of the airways. Effectiveness? < Zero.
In all seriousness, even with a butcher knife anyone that attempts to take a plane over nowadays will end up with 20 people on top of him in a choke hold.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtScott31
Noooooooo...
In all seriousness, even with a butcher knife anyone that attempts to take a plane over nowadays will end up with 20 people on top of him in a choke hold.
Possibly even tazed!!!!
Did I say any different?
Knives are no longer a credible weapon.
Seems to me that, as many on here have said already, the single root cause of 9/11 was attempted co-operation by flight crews with hijackers, per the standard protocol at that time.
Solve the root cause, as we have by changing the protocol to active non-cooperation, as you partially allude to above, and any other fixes are pointless window dressing, or worse, expensive detractors from really saving lives at risk in the air.
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Or just a guess on your part? To be honest you have no idea, the TSA has no idea and I have no idea the likelihood one could sneak a weapon past security. We have no idea how many instances of a "random knife or gun gets into the sterile area". We are totally dependent on random reports such as this one. How many go unreported? Maybe a few, maybe hundreds. But to make such a blanket statement based on nothing serves no purpose whatsoever.
