Curious about aborted landing
Aug 26, 2011, 2:15 pm
#16
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
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No I can't; and since this incident did not result in anything worse we'll likely hear no more about it.
Sep 20, 2011, 7:43 pm
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
Hello! Apologies, I didn't realise there had been more replies. Thanks for all the further answers. In response to the Sheikh, I could be mistaken about the brakes going on, of course, but it certainly felt like they did as I got that lurching feeling you get in your stomach as the brakes are applied, before being shoved back in my seat by the takeoff. Oh, and I'm a she, not a he 
.
The other thing is I've dug up my flight details so if anyone wants to look into it they're welcome to - I'm not quite sure how to go about it. It wasn't quite recent, it was in October last year, but has been at the back of my mind ever since.
07-Oct-2010
VX 251
NEW YORK, NY (JFK)
SAN FRANCISCO, CA (SFO)
We stopped for an hour or so in Las Vegas before flying on to SF. Scheduled flight arrival in SF was 2.45pm; as far as I can recall we landed on time.
With thanks (now feeling a bit freaked out by it all, but at least I'm here and safe!)
.The other thing is I've dug up my flight details so if anyone wants to look into it they're welcome to - I'm not quite sure how to go about it. It wasn't quite recent, it was in October last year, but has been at the back of my mind ever since.
07-Oct-2010
VX 251
NEW YORK, NY (JFK)
SAN FRANCISCO, CA (SFO)
We stopped for an hour or so in Las Vegas before flying on to SF. Scheduled flight arrival in SF was 2.45pm; as far as I can recall we landed on time.
With thanks (now feeling a bit freaked out by it all, but at least I'm here and safe!)
Sep 26, 2011, 6:59 pm
#19
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: LGA
Programs: Double Unobtainium, Grace L. Ferguson Airline & Storm Door Co.
Posts: 154
I've dug up my flight details so if anyone wants to look into it they're welcome to - I'm not quite sure how to go about it. It wasn't quite recent, it was in October last year, but has been at the back of my mind ever since.
07-Oct-2010
VX 251
NEW YORK, NY (JFK)
SAN FRANCISCO, CA (SFO)
We stopped for an hour or so in Las Vegas before flying on to SF. Scheduled flight arrival in SF was 2.45pm; as far as I can recall we landed on time.
With thanks (now feeling a bit freaked out by it all, but at least I'm here and safe!)
07-Oct-2010
VX 251
NEW YORK, NY (JFK)
SAN FRANCISCO, CA (SFO)
We stopped for an hour or so in Las Vegas before flying on to SF. Scheduled flight arrival in SF was 2.45pm; as far as I can recall we landed on time.
With thanks (now feeling a bit freaked out by it all, but at least I'm here and safe!)
It appears, via FlightAware, that your plane landed at 2:15p PDT. (Interestingly enough, if you zoom in on the map on the FlightAware, you can clearly see your go-around on the flight track.)
Unfortunately, LiveATC doesn't archive radio transmissions beyond 50 days, so we may never know. (If it had been within that 50 days, you could've gone here, plugged in that date and time (2115 Zulu/GMT), and KSFO Tower or Final Approach, and you'd be able to hear or download MP3s of radio traffic.)
Sep 28, 2011, 7:21 am
#20
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: DTW
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Posts: 5,040
The flight track shows it got as low as 400 feet at 5:21 and was back up at 1440 feet by 5:23. Looks like the runways at SFO are at about 13 feet. Impossible to tell if there was actually a touchdown with sampling only every minute or two.
Oct 24, 2011, 12:54 pm
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
Thanks for looking into this for me. Such a shame I was too slow off the mark to get the audio!
It's odd that it doesn't appear to show the wheels necessarily touching the runway, as they definitely did for quite a few seconds. As for whether anyone did anything in their pants... everyone looked a bit too stunned to comment! I know I was!
It's odd that it doesn't appear to show the wheels necessarily touching the runway, as they definitely did for quite a few seconds. As for whether anyone did anything in their pants... everyone looked a bit too stunned to comment! I know I was!
Oct 26, 2011, 10:53 am
#23
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NHK
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Posts: 118
The radar transponder on board your aircraft reports altitude to ATC (where FlightAware gets it). This data is not constantly reported, so quick changes in altitude (like an aborted landing) can be missed if they occur between transponder "check-ins".
Jan 16, 2012, 7:41 pm
#24
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 467
RE: Aborted Landings
Everything you need to know about aborted landings is here...
http://www.askthepilot.com/chapter-3/#c3-q8
And you were NOT climbing at 45 degrees. Half that at MOST. Pitch angles during a go-around aren't really much different from those on a normal takeoff. It just feels that way when you're startled.
PS
http://www.askthepilot.com/chapter-3/#c3-q8
And you were NOT climbing at 45 degrees. Half that at MOST. Pitch angles during a go-around aren't really much different from those on a normal takeoff. It just feels that way when you're startled.
PS
Jan 16, 2012, 7:51 pm
#25
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 467
..... But ....
In re-reading this account... I cannot accept that a crew actually initiated a go-around AFTER the plane had landed and brakes were applied. Extraordinarily unlikely. Perhaps you merely PERCEIVED it that way?
It's possible for the gear to touch down during a go-around maneuver, but once the the brakes are applied, the spoilers (automatically) deployed, etc., that plane isn't going to lift off again. Such a scenario is so beyond the realm that I just can't accept it.
PS
It's possible for the gear to touch down during a go-around maneuver, but once the the brakes are applied, the spoilers (automatically) deployed, etc., that plane isn't going to lift off again. Such a scenario is so beyond the realm that I just can't accept it.
PS
Jan 17, 2012, 5:39 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 360
Asymetric reverser deployment. And it would help to know what the equipment was.
Jan 17, 2012, 7:40 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: DC
Posts: 95
One of the sections of the Transport Canada guidance to the regulation is interesting:
"An Aeroplane Flight Manual limitation prohibiting a go-around following reverse thrust operation may be required, but is not considered adequate, by itself, to demonstrate compliance with the reference regulations."
Given that it's VX the aircraft is an A320 family aircraft. Not sure whether that has a standard reverser system which meets Canadian regulations or whether that is just for aircraft delivered in Canada. Maybe some FTer has a US A320 manual?
I would say it's pretty unlikely that the crew would chance a go-around after deploying the reversers, but go arounds do happen. Landing is quite a crazy period aerodynamically, so I can understand the OP's confusion but I do think a takeoff after reverser deployment would be a one-in-a-million event.
Jan 18, 2012, 7:12 pm
#28
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: DC
Posts: 95
Found this presentation on the Airbus website: http://bit.ly/wFR4vw
Basically confirms what some posters above have said - while theoretically possible (if everything goes right), after reverse thrust is selected the pilot should use braking and rudder to avoid collisions with objects intruding on the landing runway.
In the presentation under the section titled "Committment for Full-stop landing" there is the following text:
Basically confirms what some posters above have said - while theoretically possible (if everything goes right), after reverse thrust is selected the pilot should use braking and rudder to avoid collisions with objects intruding on the landing runway.
In the presentation under the section titled "Committment for Full-stop landing" there is the following text:
Landing incidents and accidents clearly demonstrate that after the thrust reversers have been deployed (even at reverse idle), the landing must be completed to a fullstop, as a successful go-around may not be possible.
The following occurrences have resulted in a significantly reduced rate of climb or in departure from controlled flight:
• Thrust asymmetry resulting from asymmetrical engine spool up (i.e., asymmetrical engine acceleration characteristics from a ground idle level);
• Thrust asymmetry resulting from one thrust reverser going to the stow position faster than the other one; and,
• Severe thrust asymmetry resulting from one thrust reverser failing to re-stow.
The following occurrences have resulted in a significantly reduced rate of climb or in departure from controlled flight:
• Thrust asymmetry resulting from asymmetrical engine spool up (i.e., asymmetrical engine acceleration characteristics from a ground idle level);
• Thrust asymmetry resulting from one thrust reverser going to the stow position faster than the other one; and,
• Severe thrust asymmetry resulting from one thrust reverser failing to re-stow.
Mar 10, 2012, 2:19 pm
#29
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Mar 13, 2012, 1:01 am
#30
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 128
Once again, and no offense to the OP at all, but passengers generally have a pretty poor view of what actually is happening at any given moment.
From what I gather, the OP said they touched down, and then "a second" later the pilot "hit the thrust".
Well, turbofan engines don't work like that. It takes them anywhere from a second to three seconds to spool up from flight idle to TOGA thrust.
My guess is, based on experience, that there was some sort of runway contamination/incursion issue as the plane passed over the threshold. By the time Go-around procedures were initiated, it's quite possible that the mains touched the runway, which slows the airplane slightly and makes you feel like the brakes are coming on. The sudden acceleration from the TOGA thrust also enhances the illusion of coming out of a braking action and rocketing at a steep angle.
From what I gather, the OP said they touched down, and then "a second" later the pilot "hit the thrust".
Well, turbofan engines don't work like that. It takes them anywhere from a second to three seconds to spool up from flight idle to TOGA thrust.
My guess is, based on experience, that there was some sort of runway contamination/incursion issue as the plane passed over the threshold. By the time Go-around procedures were initiated, it's quite possible that the mains touched the runway, which slows the airplane slightly and makes you feel like the brakes are coming on. The sudden acceleration from the TOGA thrust also enhances the illusion of coming out of a braking action and rocketing at a steep angle.