Service Animal Fiasco

Old Aug 19, 2011, 11:25 am
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Service Animal Fiasco

Was on a WN flight this week. Lady in row 1 had a small dog in a small duffel bag made for carrying small animals. Was allowed to keep the dog in the bag during take off/landing, on the floor in front of her feet (bulkhead).
On the next flight, new crew told her she could not have bag during to/landing, so after bringing in a supervisor, she was made to hold the dog on her lap for take-off, then could put it back in the bag until landing. all because it is against FAA rules to have any kind of bag out during take off?
this bag was just a thin layer of material, nothing hard or sharp about it.

delayed our flight about 15 minutes for that argument!
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 11:49 am
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:::biting my tongue about the legitimacy of most lap-sized dogs being "service animals":::

...and even if this little dog is truly a service animal, or comfort animal, how much help is it to the owner if it stays in its little bag for the entire flight, anyway? It makes much more sense for the dog to be out so it can "help", whether it is alerting the owner to an impending seizure or offering comfort.

I think the flight attendant on the second flight was right, as there are not supposed to be *any* bags on the bulkhead row floor during takeoff or landing. In contrast, people who travel with "pets" are not generally permitted to sit in exit or bulkhead rows, because of traffic flow and carry-on stowing regulations.

I have to wonder if this lady was just trying to fly with her pet for free and sit in a bulkhead row, to boot.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 12:03 pm
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Originally Posted by doctall41
Was on a WN flight this week. Lady in row 1 had a small dog in a small duffel bag made for carrying small animals. Was allowed to keep the dog in the bag during take off/landing, on the floor in front of her feet (bulkhead).
On the next flight, new crew told her she could not have bag during to/landing, so after bringing in a supervisor, she was made to hold the dog on her lap for take-off, then could put it back in the bag until landing. all because it is against FAA rules to have any kind of bag out during take off?
this bag was just a thin layer of material, nothing hard or sharp about it.

delayed our flight about 15 minutes for that argument!
I had the opposite experience once.
Was travelling with my dad and his 2 Emotional Support Pug's, and the FA told us they had to be on the floor and were not allowed on are laps. After pointing out that they needed to be in the lap in order effectively do there job he went away, though he did come back about 15 minutes later and stated with all seriousness "I have read the manual, and it says you can only have Monkey's in your lap, but I have a call into Atlanta for clarification" he was never seen again.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 12:04 pm
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If it was in a small duffel bag, then it most likely was not a service animal. As such, she should not have been seated in the bulkhead as the animal and its container need to fit under the seat in front of her for takeoff and landing. A service animal would not.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 12:08 pm
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Originally Posted by geeprice
"I have read the manual, and it says you can only have Monkey's in your lap, but I have a call into Atlanta for clarification".
You owe me a new keyboard. I'm pretty sure that corporal punishment of your monkey would not be permitted however.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 12:10 pm
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Originally Posted by ND Sol
If it was in a small duffel bag, then it most likely was not a service animal. As such, she should not have been seated in the bulkhead as the animal and its container need to fit under the seat in front of her for takeoff and landing. A service animal would not.
Doesn't Southwest not permit in cabin pet's? So the only animals allowed on Southwest are Service and Emotional support animals as permitted under the air carrier access act.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 12:31 pm
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Cats and small dogs are permitted in the cabin.

http://www.southwest.com/html/travel...index-pol.html
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 12:37 pm
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Originally Posted by eturowski
Cats and small dogs are permitted in the cabin.

http://www.southwest.com/html/travel...index-pol.html
Thanks, looks like they changed to that policy in 2009.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 12:47 pm
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Originally Posted by geeprice
...and his 2 Emotional Support Pug's...
Give me a break. This crap has to be stopped.

"Emotional support"? If you are that emotionally fragile, stay home.

And he needed TWO? Yeah, those aren't pets....
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 12:52 pm
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Originally Posted by Always Flyin
Give me a break. This crap has to be stopped.
If you feel that way, then lobby Congress to change the law or the FAA to modify the correspondig CFR (I don't recall the exact interplay of the ACAA and the FAA's CFR with respect to ESAs).
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 12:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Always Flyin
Give me a break. This crap has to be stopped.

"Emotional support"? If you are that emotionally fragile, stay home.

And he needed TWO? Yeah, those aren't pets....
Yah doesn't seem right exploiting loopholes in law or program rules to suit personnel needs and wants, now that wouldn't be in the Flyertalk spirit would it?
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 1:17 pm
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Originally Posted by Ari
If you feel that way, then lobby Congress to change the law or the FAA to modify the correspondig CFR (I don't recall the exact interplay of the ACAA and the FAA's CFR with respect to ESAs).
I don't need to. It already exists:

14 CFR Part 382

With respect to an animal
used for emotional support (which need not
have specific training for that function),
airline personnel may require current
documentation (i.e., not more than one year
old) on letterhead from a mental health
professional stating (1) that the passenger has
a mental health-related disability; (2) that
having the animal accompany the passenger
is necessary to the passenger’s mental health
or treatment or to assist the passenger (with
his or her disability); and (3) that the
individual providing the assessment of the
passenger is a licensed mental health professional
and the passenger is under his or her professional care.

Airline personnel
may require this documentation as a
condition of permitting the animal to
accompany the passenger in the cabin. The
purpose of this provision is to prevent abuse
by passengers that do not have a medical
need for an emotional support animal and to
ensure that passengers who have a legitimate
need for emotional support animals are
permitted to travel with their service animals
on the aircraft. Airlines are not permitted to
require the documentation to specify the type
of mental health disability, e.g., panic
attacks.
TWO animals for emotional support? That is not in the regs and is a clear sign the animals are pets. In the hold they go and I hope the passenger is placed in a middle seat in the last row of the plane.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 1:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Always Flyin
I don't need to. It already exists:

14 CFR Part 382



TWO animals for emotional support? That is not in the regs and is a clear sign the animals are pets. In the hold they go and I hope the passenger is placed in a middle seat in the last row of the plane.

My emotional support need is only fulfilled by an albino pygmy three toed sloth and a bottle of Xanax with me on each and every flight. Also, my sloth can only support my fragile emotional condition whilst in F.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 1:40 pm
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Ari
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Originally Posted by Always Flyin
I don't need to. It already exists:

14 CFR Part 382



TWO animals for emotional support? That is not in the regs and is a clear sign the animals are pets. In the hold they go and I hope the passenger is placed in a middle seat in the last row of the plane.
If I misread your post I apologize. I thought your objection was to ESRs in general, not to the two that this passenger aparently brought with him. I agree that two is excessive but don't see that the regs prohibit it.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 1:49 pm
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Originally Posted by Always Flyin
I don't need to. It already exists:

14 CFR Part 382



TWO animals for emotional support? That is not in the regs and is a clear sign the animals are pets. In the hold they go and I hope the passenger is placed in a middle seat in the last row of the plane.
I didn't say he was travelling alone now did I, there were two letter's on the appropriate letterhead, from the appropriate professional, referencing two different travelers. I don't deny it was gaming the system, but what I don't understand is the hostility I feel from your post's, when there are whole areas of Flyertalk that specialize in doing just that in every way imaginable.

By the way if it makes you feel any better he is dead now, so no more worry's.
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