Programs: US Dougie's Preferred, UA Gate Louse, HH Gold, National Emerald Club, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 12,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFOSpiff
I wonder if this is related to people constantly trying to sneak into seats they didn't pay for (United Economy+, exit rows that cost extra, etc.)
More government-enforced revenue protection?
I could see that being a theft of services type thing, unless you could show you would be otherwise permitted to be there (i.e. UA elite for E+ and had your card).
Otherwise, you might just the ol Disobeying a Crew Member's Instructions charge.
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US Upgades as a CP: Total 3/4, Short Haul 2/2, Midcon 0/0, TCON 1/2
The only thing that I can think of is that it might be a federal offense to disobey the instructions of the flight crew, which might include your seat designation.
The only thing that I can think of is that it might be a federal offense to disobey the instructions of the flight crew, which might include your seat designation.
Don't confuse Federal Law with Federal [u]Regulations! When people talk about a "Federal Offence", they usually mean the former, not the latter. There's no law saying that you can't intimidate flight crew, nor that you can't prevent them from doing their job, just that you can't do them both! The prohibition against doing either is merely a regulation, meaning you can be fined, but not go to jail.
And there's neither a law or regulation saying that you must obey all orders of flight crew, only that you must obey their orders with respect to smoking and seat belts. American usually gets that right on their announcements, but other airlines don't.
(I was once on a DL RJ with only one or two other passengers and challenged the FA to show me where it said that passengers had to obey them. She believed it was the case, but after searching through the book of FAR's she had, she reluctantly agreed with the above.)
I've swapped or sat in other seats several times. It was just bought to my knowledge that it's actually a federal offence to do so over US airspace.
I know it is a federal offence to not follow directions from a flight attendant, but can someone tell me if this is true?
Thank you.
Welcome to FT.
It's very common for airline staff, particularly flight attendants and occasionally pilots, to claim that some behavior they don't like is prohibited by FAA regulation, federal regulation, federal law, and now (unfortunately), TSA regulation or the generic "for security reasons." It is almost always total BS unless it involves smoking, seatbelts, or serious immediate safety concerns. It's mostly a power trip--small people given authority over others tend to abuse it.
Part of the screwed-up logic behind this is that, IIRC, airlines have to submit a description of their operations to the FAA for approval (I don't remember the exact terminology), and once approved, the employees seem to think those procedures (i.e., individual airline rules), which have to be followed to keep the FAA happy, are federal rules instead of airline rules.
Even switching seats across cabins--either real coach-to-first switches or moves to economy+ on UA--wouldn't be federal issues unless theft-of-service is a federal crime.
Things I have heard claimed were against federal/faa law/rule:
Switching seats
using the lavatory in a cabin other than where your seat is
loitering/congregating around the lavatory or galley
wearing headphones (connected to the in-seat audio system) during takeoff/landing
putting anything other than the safety card, barf bag, and in-flight magazine in the seat-back pocket.
exiting the aircraft during a gate hold for mechanical problems (door was still open, late-arriving passengers were still boarding).
using a cell phone at the gate while the boarding door is still open
using a cell phone at the gate after the boarding door is closed but the catering door is still open
using a cell phone during a long tarmac ground hold (engines were shut down).
having a styrofoam cup of soda in my hands during takeoff (FAA insisted on either holding it in the galley during takeoff or me disposing of it).
And many I can't remember. I'm sure others can list a lot more.
The only problem I could see, is if you were told to move to a certain seat by crew for W+B issues. If you refuse, they can kick you off the plane for refusal to cooperate; if they're having a crappy day, an LEO may be summoned.
I've swapped or sat in other seats several times. It was just bought to my knowledge that it's actually a federal offence to do so over US airspace.
I know it is a federal offence to not follow directions from a flight attendant, but can someone tell me if this is true?
Thank you.
The answer to the thread's headline question is: no, it is not a federal violation.
What may be a federal violation is a failure to follow reasonable crew instructions. Moving people in a cabin for weight and balance issues is a reasonable crew instruction.
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Like TSA, DL SkyMiles management treats airline customers as if they are the enemy or sheep to be fleeced and it shows.
They did make a regulation about this immediately after the underwear bomber. Passengers on inbound flights to the US had to sit in their assigned seats. I've not heard that announcement since that attempted attack.
Other than that, the TSA does have the mandated announcements about assigned cabins and "congregating" near the flight deck or lavatories. As far as I know, this applies ONLY on inbound flights to the US operated by US carriers.
The lavatory rule is enforced with militant fervor aboard Continental.
There is still a 30-minute rule on inbound and outbound flights to Tel Aviv on US carriers, but I've only had this enforced on Delta, not Continental (I've never taken US Airways overseas.)
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but it happened to me a few days ago.
I was going LHR-ORD on UA. I was seated in Business Class, in the first row of the cabin. I was one of the first on the flight and need to use the lav. So now others were coming on and instead of using the lav in Business, which is at the very end of the cabin (to avoid swimming upstream when finished), I decided to use the lav in F (only two rows away).
I was waiting for the lav when one of the FA's asked me if I needed anything. I told her what I wanted to do. She told me that I should use the lav in Business. I told her why I really didn't want to (she could see all the people boarding and the congestion). She then told me it was a Federal Rule that I could only use the lav in my ticketed cabin.
I told her that the plane was still on the ground, door wide open, not moving and pax were still boarding. If it were flying, I certainly wouldn't do it (and I do respect that rule and don't). She insisted that it was the rule. I challenged her on it.
She then said "Do you want me to get the Captain involded?" I said sure, go for it.
Captain comes out and we begin our discussion. He looked and said the lav was occupied (which I knew). FA continues to rant. Captain turns around and looks at lav again. He says "It's free now, go ahead and use it."
Captain comes out and we begin our discussion. He looked and said the lav was occupied (which I knew). FA continues to rant. Captain turns around and looks at lav again. He says "It's free now, go ahead and use it."
Unbelievable.
I would have sought out the FA afterward, just for the opportunity to gloat... And also get her name, so a complaint could be filed against her for making up rules and threatening you.
Hopefully it happens enough to cause this FA to realize that she's only a glorified vending machine.
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Overheard from a male TSO at a TSA checkpoint: "If she makes mine wiggle, can I give hers a jiggle?"
Part of the screwed-up logic behind this is that, IIRC, airlines have to submit a description of their operations to the FAA for approval (I don't remember the exact terminology), .
.
They are called Op Specs or Operations Specifications, and they are part, along with training manuals, drug testing protocol and maintenance manuals, of the documentation required for the issuance of an Air Carrier Certificate under Part 121 of the Regulations. (Also now for Part 135 (Charter) certificates. Deviation from these documents can subject the operator (airline) to a fine, but they are not binding on the passengers.
Is it a federal offence to switch seats?
