Programs: Over-Entitled COdbaUA-1k, HHGold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & now a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 21,929
Wasn't it the Dutch that screwed up?
yes i hate the tsa (corporate) and yes, i am as pi$$ed off as the rest of you regarding the stoopit fallout asa result the "panty bomber" but i have a simple question.....
wasn't it the dutch that screwed up? yeah numbnutz panty bomber started in nigeria but his last point of exit prior to flying to the u.s was in amsterdam, right?
so how come no one is lambasting the dutch? they don't have oil, they aren't one of the united states' biggest creditors, they aren't a nuclear nation.
just my handful of pucks
__________________
Over-entitled 1k wondering how COdbaUA likes Flyertalk being its beta tester?
As it stands it's unlikely that anyone would have detected him. And remember for flights to the US the security adopted by a country has to meet TSA standards otherwise you can't fly to the US from that country
The TSA approved the screening applicable for this AMS-DTW flight.
The TSA wanted and approved the "profilers" for this AMS-DTW flight.
Instead of mandating security measures for US airlines flying to the US that included the routine use of technology to detect explosives on/in/with passengers, the TSA wanted "profiling" and approved the "profiling" and other additional "security" measures in place at AMS for this US-bound flight operated by a US airline.
If the DHS/TSA stopped meddling internationally, DHS/TSA wouldn't be to blame at all in this situations. But DHS/TSA keeps digging its heels in internationally more and more and thus has its fingerprints all over this incident.
Of course, out of those airports that are primarily for commercial, scheduled passenger flights, every airport in the world would fail to detect explosives in the absence of using bomb-sniffing dogs, ETDs, ETPs and the like that actually detect explosives.
__________________
Like TSA, DL SkyMiles management treats airline customers as if they are the enemy or sheep to be fleeced and it shows.
Apparently, the Dutch *wanted* to put in extra security measures for US bound transatlantic flights. Including millimetre-wave screening, that they had already bought and had ready, just before the transatlantic gates. But the TSA told them they were not to do so until they could do it for all international flights. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6971582.ece)
Exactly *why* they decided to prevent the Dutch from putting in the security is probably not going to come to light now. I doubt anyone is ready to explain why they exerted international pressure on *preventing* security rather than enhancing it. But I suspect a mixture of "We don't want our citizens or money spending tourists to be hassled" and "We don't want a foreign airport showing us up, wait till we can afford to put them in our airports first."
Programs: UA1K Million Mile Flyer, HH Diamond, IC Plat, SPG Plat, Marriott Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 7,354
I have another question. Which, if any, security checkpoints anywhere would in all probability have caught the BVD bomber (knicker bomber? Unit Bomber?) up short(s)?
A poster in another thread made an excellent point along the lines of this: If this "allegedly" "confused" suspect had simply flown here rather than "allegedly" "attempting" to get his knickers in a knot, he'd now be in the U.S. and free to "allegedly" engage in other unpleasant activities.
I'm glad the President is ordering a review of the alleged failure to connect the dots, even I don't have a lot of faith in the outcome. I suspect politics may play a role in all of this on all sides. Call me cynical.
The Dutch airport authorities say that the millimetre-wave scanners, had they been allowed to install them before the Transatlantic gates by the TSA, would have instantly spotted the explosives.
The Dutch airport authorities say that the millimetre-wave scanners, had they been allowed to install them before the Transatlantic gates by the TSA, would have instantly spotted the explosives.
Yes, most probably the explosvies would have been spotted if millimeter wave scanning was done.
So today the Dutch government stated, that they will no longer wait for international approval or use of the milliwave scanners, and will startup operation ASAP. Big difference with the Dutch scanners is that it scans are analysed by software, not a human. This to circumvent privacy issues.
IMHO this was the biggest US fail ever on airline security. As europeans we have to disclose EVERYTHING of our lives to the US, so they can screen everyone before the plane lives the gate in AMS.
This time they had a clear warning of a potential terrorist, they approved the manifest and didn't issue any warning.
I have another question. Which, if any, security checkpoints anywhere would in all probability have caught the BVD bomber
I'm posotive the Israeli's would of gotten him at the first check point they have, which is as you drive in to the airport, long before reaching the terminal, one look in to his eye, and they would taken him for a full search, never mind the fact that he had a one way ticket and no luggage.
But you Guys seem to call it racist, so I assume the only solution you have is to risk your lives
I'm posotive the Israeli's would of gotten him at the first check point they have, which is as you drive in to the airport, long before reaching the terminal, one look in to his eye, and they would taken him for a full search, never mind the fact that he had a one way ticket and no luggage.
But you Guys seem to call it racist, so I assume the only solution you have is to risk your lives
The TSA-approved "profilers" working this flight at AMS were Israeli-trained.
As someone who has a history of flying this very AMS-DTW flight a lot, I am sure the risk to my life is far greater on the drive to the airport than anything happening to me on a flight because bigots haven't gotten their way entirely.
__________________
Like TSA, DL SkyMiles management treats airline customers as if they are the enemy or sheep to be fleeced and it shows.
tsa sets the standards for us bound flights. short of a good pat down or a body scan it would be hard to spot the package part of which might have been in his body.
The TSA-approved "profilers" working this flight at AMS were Israeli-trained.
As someone who has a history of flying this very ASM-DTW flight a lot, I am sure the risk to my life is far greater on the drive to the airport than anything happening to me on a flight because bigotry has its limits.
This proves definitively that TSA approved policies profile extentsively. The system failed because it was n ot designed to look for terrorist who had diferent looks than "middle eastern".
__________________
Those who sacrifice liberty of some to purchase a little temporary safety, will have neither liberty nor safety.
yes i hate the tsa (corporate) and yes, i am as pi$$ed off as the rest of you regarding the stoopit fallout asa result the "panty bomber" but i have a simple question.....
wasn't it the dutch that screwed up? yeah numbnutz panty bomber started in nigeria but his last point of exit prior to flying to the u.s was in amsterdam, right?
so how come no one is lambasting the dutch? they don't have oil, they aren't one of the united states' biggest creditors, they aren't a nuclear nation.
just my handful of pucks
Not if they followed TSA approved procedure in entirety. U.S. airlines flying to the U.S. get extra security scan that is more stringent than that given to other airlines, even when flying to the U.S. The security staff is under direct control of the airline staff or staff appointed by the airline.
__________________
Those who sacrifice liberty of some to purchase a little temporary safety, will have neither liberty nor safety.
The perp was on a watch list. I would not be surprised if the US gov't failed to share the information that the perp was on the watch list with the Dutch. How can a country be "with the USA" if it doesn't have information?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0059099
Big difference with the Dutch scanners is that it scans are analysed by software, not a human. This to circumvent privacy issues.
Interesting; do you have more details? Such as false negative and false positive rates? What happens when the software says there is contraband? Is the accused given a pat down and/or do the human screeners look at the image?
Depending on the answers and also how long the image is retained, I could find this acceptable.
__________________
Robert Crandall on American Airlines: it's a great company that does important work. But airlines are not an investment.
Programs: Over-Entitled COdbaUA-1k, HHGold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & now a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 21,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mre5765
The perp was on a watch list. I would not be surprised if the US gov't failed to share the information that the perp was on the watch list with the Dutch. How can a country be "with the USA" if it doesn't have information?
Interesting; do you have more details? Such as false negative and false positive rates? What happens when the software says there is contraband? Is the accused given a pat down and/or do the human screeners look at the image?
Depending on the answers and also how long the image is retained, I could find this acceptable.
with the panty bomber being on a "watch list", shouldn't it have been picked up by us good guys once the dutch transmitted the pax manifest info to the the tsa/dhs. if the dutch transmitted the info, then the u.s screwed the pooch but if the dutch didn't transmit or transmitted late, it's their fault
__________________
Over-entitled 1k wondering how COdbaUA likes Flyertalk being its beta tester?
Wasn't it the Dutch that screwed up?
