Okay, first of all, arriving at the airport late is my fault so I have no excuse for that.
But CA tickets are one of the most inflexible tickets and the agents who are at PEK are ice cold in terms of customer service.
I had PEK-TAE (Daegu, South Korea) return ticket booked in relatively expensive economy ticket, but non-endorsable.
I arrived at the airport check-in at the business class counter (*G) 55 minutes to departure - check-in closes at 60 minutes before departure (again I am not disputing the fact that I arrived late).
The check-in agent flatly refused to check me in and hushed me away in sloppy English to the duty manager. The Duty manager doesn't even look at my ticket and says 'I'm busy, go to ticketing office,' again in sloppy English.
I arrive at the ticketing office and explain my situation and asked them if it is possible to re-route me to ICN (Seoul) as there are three flights available on CA metal and completely open.
The agent says, I can ONLY go to TAE and that I have to buy a new ticket. All the appealing did no good - usually UA or other airlines are generally helpful when the loads are not so tight and allow me to fly to other airports (Korea is not too big). TAE being serviced only three times a week also does not help my situation as the next TAE flight would be two days later.
All the agent could say was literally 'not possible' 'buy new ticket'!
Oh well, in the end, I ended up buying a ticket to ICN at a decent price but I am now more than determined to not fly CA after today. I have never seen such inflexibility on the day of departure!
Unfortunately, they didn't do anything wrong. I don't know what UA do (apart from losing a lot of money, that is!), but I guarantee you that, had you tried this with KL/BA/LH, the result would have been exactly the same.
And what's with the comment about their "sloppy English"? You were in China- I am guessing their English was better than your Mandarin.
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Signature temporarily removed- apparently somebody hasn't seen me trying to speak Chinese.
Unfortunately, they didn't do anything wrong. I don't know what UA do (apart from losing a lot of money, that is!), but I guarantee you that, had you tried this with KL/BA/LH, the result would have been exactly the same.
And what's with the comment about their "sloppy English"? You were in China- I am guessing their English was better than your Mandarin.
Not really, my mandarine was just about same as their English level. I can't converse in complicated sentences in Mandarine so I prefer to speak English as English is my second native language. One cannot expect to speak fluent in the language of places that one visits! Hence, we have English as a common language in the travel industry and especially for city like Beijing and place like Beijing International Airport, staff should be adequately trained to speak and converse in English. Is that difficult to ask?
Didn't I make clear in my first sentence that I wasn't disputing CA was right or wrong?!
I was hoping for some mercy and I didn't get it. Usually if you are loyal customer, the airlines grant you some favors, in lieu of good customer service. In this case, I wasn't late by much, only five minutes, which most airlines would allow you to check-in, especially when the flight loads are light.
This is my return flight, so I already flew TAE-PEK. And as I mentioned earlier, I bought rather expensive ticket, not full fare but not those cheap ones either. The ticket was around 600 bucks RT, but only possible on CA metal. I had imagine that CA would at least re-route me to ICN as TAE flight (which used to be daily when I bought it) is only operating three times a week.
Guess what, on my out bound, I was provided with no compensation when CA cancelled my TAE-PEK flight without notice citing light loads for that day. I was involuntarily rerouted to ICN-PEK flight. I had to pay for my train ticket to Seoul and lug around my large luggage.
As you know some Mandarin, I assume you are fairly familiar with the way the country works. So the service is awful. Are you surprised? I can count on my one hand moments of great customer service (restaurants, airports, hotels) in my five years here.
So next time do what you should have been doing from the very beginning: Get to the airport on time and DON'T ever fly CA, especially non-domestic.
One cannot expect to speak fluent in the language of places that one visits!
By the same token, you shouldn't expect locals to speak your language.
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Originally Posted by brahms77
we have English as a common language in the travel industry
English is more commonly spoken than other foreign languages, but it's far from universal, even within the travel industry.
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Originally Posted by brahms77
and especially for city like Beijing and place like Beijing International Airport, staff should be adequately trained to speak and converse in English. Is that difficult to ask?
It's not that difficult. But it is expensive!
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Originally Posted by brahms77
Didn't I make clear in my first sentence that I wasn't disputing CA was right or wrong?!
I was hoping for some mercy and I didn't get it. Usually if you are loyal customer, the airlines grant you some favors, in lieu of good customer service. In this case, I wasn't late by much, only five minutes, which most airlines would allow you to check-in, especially when the flight loads are light.
I've been refused check-in for turning up at exactly 16:10 for a 16:40 flight with a published minimum check-in time of 30 minutes that had, on that day, been closed at 16:07. On an airline with whom I have Gold status. Had to pay a change fee and come back the following day. I didn't even think of complaining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brahms77
Guess what, on my out bound, I was provided with no compensation when CA cancelled my TAE-PEK flight without notice citing light loads for that day. I was involuntarily rerouted to ICN-PEK flight. I had to pay for my train ticket to Seoul and lug around my large luggage.
That definitely is wrong! I don't know Korean laws, but Korea is not China and I would, as a minimum, write CA a complaint letter and consult the consumer protection authorities to see if there would be any way for them to at least pay for my train!
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Signature temporarily removed- apparently somebody hasn't seen me trying to speak Chinese.
I've had many similar experiences with Chinese airlines, which tend to be sticklers with regard to their rules, though in recent years, I've run into a handful of reasonable people. My biggest accomplishment was showing up at WUH 15 minutes before the final PEK flight of the day, buying a ticket, checking in, an whizzing through security while they held the plane for me. This was on CA, iirc. On the flipside, a friend of mine was dinged by NW at PDX because he checked in for NW5 at the 57 minute mark. My point is that this sort of thing isn't completely unique to China. One thing that is unique to China (at least in contrast to the US) is that switching airlines once you're airside pretty much requires a trip back to the ticketing lobby. This means that you can be waiting in SHA for hours on a bad day to catch a flight to PEK. Flights do take off periodically; they just happen to be delayed by 2+ hours each. In such situations, it would be nice to be able to walk up to the podium for the 10a flight at 1230p and get on (instead of waiting until 3p to take the 1230p flight), but doing so isn't very easy (though you have a shot if you're ticketed on the same airline).
Before closing, I'd like to go on the record, yet again, proclaiming that CZ has the worst, most stubborn, rudest,.... service of any airline in China.
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If you know the penalty for allowing someone check in late and cause the flight been delayed more than 15 minutes (official "delay time" in China), you won't complain any more.
While on a bus transport (for F passengers) in SHA two months ago, someone (I guess very senior) was shouting on the radio - "If any of you deer to cause a delay for any flight leaving SHA this morning, you will take full responsibility not just one delay, but any further delays on that particular aircraft within the whole day (that could be 6 or 8)! You won't see your bonus this month with salary deduction! And you won't get the year-end bonus either!"
I can see the whole ground team was getting so serious (they already were), and the bus driver put his right foot down straight away.
They are only getting 200 pounds a month (or less if there is a single delay), and you expect each of them (probably has never travelled outside China) speak fluent English, polite, and provides high quality service under such pressure? Can you find such work force in your country?
Three lessons to learn:
- Learn Chinese if you need to go there often
- Be on time for all flights, especially international flights (regardless which airline, becasue the ground agents are Chinese)
- Buy F tickets (it may give you more flexibility), my personal experience is, it's definitely worth the money I paid for
I think they were taught by some of the very rude European airlines that fly to China how to be rude and flob you off
CZ are part of Sky Team so have been taught by the masters themselves...AF
Seriously, I assume that the OP has a fair bit of experience of how China works if he speaks Mandarin. That being the case, he should realise that there is no leeway on check-in times at all. I arrived 5 minutes late for a CZ flight a while back (and I have elite status with them thru Sky Team), the only one to a particular destination that day. I asked them politely, then asked the duty manager. There was no way "mei you ban fa"
No point getting uptight about it, my fault. I took a bus to another city then flew from there
And I think the OP is being a bit hard on the staff re English. I expect Mandarin at domestic check in but reasonable English at international and that's generally what is spoken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickyboy
CZ are part of Sky Team so have been taught by the masters themselves...AF
Where is this title came from? Service on AF is good? I did one return flights with AF to Far East three years ago (on those horrible old 1980's 744) and claimed one reward flight using miles (from other airlines in Sky Team) with AF, their service level, including services in Paris airport was the worst I've ever had. Never fly with them again, not sure what CZ can learn from them - the cold face of cabin crew?
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Originally Posted by nickyboy
And I think the OP is being a bit hard on the staff re English. I expect Mandarin at domestic check in but reasonable English at international and that's generally what is spoken
When two people both using English as their second language in a conversation, the outcome normally is not so good. I've seen so many foreigners struggled in China, not because of just speaking English, the problem is actually using English in a proper conversation (that everyone understands).
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It was not clear to me if OP has status on CA.
IMHO, many problems expereinced in China gets over blown....because it is China.
I have been traveling internationally for about 20 years now and have flown international carriers from around the world, and I have noted every airlines and in every country follows its own specific rules and practice.
My suggestion is always trying to understand the local rules and practice than trying to compare rules and practices of one's home country or your favorite airlines. Once you take that into consideration, things will get easier.
I've personally found Chinese customer service to be amongst the worst in the world... I don't know why the OP expects CA to be any different?
While having problems in a country where you don't speak the language is no fun, you really can't expect them to be fluent in your language even if that is English.
While having problems in a country where you don't speak the language is no fun, you really can't expect them to be fluent in your language even if that is English.
Actually, I think we can. These are people who are in the business of dealing with international customers on a daily basis. Even though I can make a good linguistic argument (linguistics is a hobby of mine) that English is a poor choice for international communications, the fact remains that it is almost universally accepted as the most practical medium for international communications. And so, it is quite reasonable that any international traveler would expect airline personnel to be conversant in English, anywhere in the world. Again, I am not referring to a vendor selling meat-on-a-stick in the streets, I am specifically talking about personnel whose primary job is to assist travelers.
I have been a bit surprised in my travels in China to find that Western language skills are quite lacking in many contexts (high-level business executives, for example) where I would normally expect them to be better, even in countries far less developed than China. It seems to me that this issue is something which is going to leave the PRC less competitive than it would otherwise be, if they don't address the problem aggressively.
I have even found concierges at five-star hotels with a dysfunctional command of English. And I am always perfectly willing to switch instead to Spanish, French, etc., if that would be more productive, but the problem isn't that these employees don't happen to have learned English as their international language, it is that they have learned no language other than their mother tongue.
If you arrive later than the check in deadline, I don’t think that your treatment would be any different from any other airlines, including most North American ones. Whether CA would be able to re-route your itinerary depended on the rules of your particular ticket as this was not an involuntary re-route. You arrived late and missed your flight.
I flew CA for the first time in Nov. 2008 from HKG to PEK in C.
I have found the services, from check in, in flight to arrival in PEK were perfect and were superior than many North American airlines.
One may argue that the efficient check in at HKG may not count as it’s always very high level of service there with just about any airline but the in flight service was very good albeit limited command of the English language of all FA’s, they tried very hard though, delicious meal and a dedicated mini bus for expedited transport for C passengers from an outer bay to the terminal.
Yes, I have used online check in which expedited the process at the airport in HKG.
My checked baggage was on the belt by the time I arrived at the baggage reclaim area.
