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Old Mar 14, 08, 8:16 am   #1
 
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safest airline within Indonesia / fly at all?

I know that all Indonesian airlines are blacklisted by the EU. Now I have to fly some routes within Indonesia pretty soon and I wonder how serious the safety risk is. I could fly all flights on Garuda on B737-400 aircraft. But if there is a risk that the plane is just falling from the sky or not well maintained I rather skip that business. What is your opinion? I am usually not afraid of flying and always think that the pilots want to get back on the ground safe as well, still I have some concerns for the first time.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 8:21 am   #2
 
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For me, Garuda is the safest of all, and since this is the only full-service airline there this is my primary choice. For LCC, I would say Sriwijaya Air and the new Mandala Air.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 10:00 am   #3
 
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I'd agree Garuda, despite last years little incident. But really, you always need to keep safety in perspective. Indonesia's air safety may be deplorable but far more people still die walking down the street than will ever be hurt in airline incidents. Adam Air et al may be 10 times more dangerous than a western airline but I bet even they are 10 times safer than the cab ride to the airport. And chances are pretty good you will survive the cab ride too. Why worry? But Garuda is probably the best of the lot.

Mandala is fine too but the age of some of the planes would make some folks nervous. Not that a properly maintained old plane is dangerous.... but they still fly some OLD planes.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 11:02 am   #4
 
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Originally Posted by Mabuk dan gila View Post
But really, you always need to keep safety in perspective. Indonesia's air safety may be deplorable but far more people still die walking down the street than will ever be hurt in airline incidents. Adam Air et al may be 10 times more dangerous than a western airline but I bet even they are 10 times safer than the cab ride to the airport.
I agree. Even if Indonesian carriers are not as safe as US or European carriers the chance of getting involved in an accident with them are pretty remote. I would be more worried about getting hit by a car on the street.

Also, the EU blacklisted all Indonesian carriers because of a general lack of oversight by the Indonesian authorities. This does not mean that all Indonesian carriers have serious safety lapses. I would probably avoid flying Adam Air and similar LCC outfits. Garuda, however, has higher safety standards, not the least because they also fly to international destinations where they are subjected to a more stringent oversight than in Indonesia.

So if you can do all your trips on Garuda, go for it.

Enjoy your trips.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 11:20 am   #5
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Garuda or Merpati

I have flown on both and find them both to be satisfactory.

When you consider the accident on GA last year, it was pilot error, he was warned many times by warning devices that there were issues with the landing, yet like many Asian pilots continued on rather than to go around.

This is the Asian community saving face. To go around would mean admitting to the world that his judgement or skill was inadequte, so far better in the mind to take the risk - and end up killing people.

The only issue with this is that he is still alive - and now on a suicide watch in prison.

Indo is a hugely populated country and many thousands of people fly evey day, so EU ban of Indo aircraft is a bit of a furfy in my opinion.

It has cost me FF points on NW as I have not been able to fulfill NW criteria of travel at least once in 3 years. Been back and forth between SYD and DPS but while the bad is on not able to acrew partner points.

Adam
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Old Mar 14, 08, 11:25 am   #6
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I've found most of Indonesian airlines are fine. I even flew on Adam Air a few months after their crash. I've flown Garuda, Air Asia/AW, Adam Air, Lion and Star, I think. Never a problem.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 11:29 am   #7
 
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Flew on 5 different airlines in 06....and lived to tell!!!

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Old Mar 15, 08, 3:55 am   #8
 
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Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero View Post
I've found most of Indonesian airlines are fine. I even flew on Adam Air a few months after their crash. I've flown Garuda, Air Asia/AW, Adam Air, Lion and Star, I think. Never a problem.
Ah yes, never had a problem.

But when you do, and you are killed, please don't complain.

My advice is, if you value your life (and many people don't), do not fly an Indonesian airline.

Why do I say this? My partner is an academic mentor to Indonesian students, and we have visited Indonesia many times. Life is short there...
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Old Mar 15, 08, 4:08 am   #9
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I will not die on an airplane. I'm betting on a crazy taxi driver either crashing while I'm inside, or running me over.
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Old Mar 15, 08, 4:17 am   #10
 
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I remember in 2005 on my first visit to Indonesia, a Mandala Airlines 737 crashed in Medan. That same time, I flew on Garuda (GA) from CGK to Yogyjkarta on a 737-400. The last year, a GA 737-400 flying on the same route crashed (as previous posts have stated) due to pilot error. I was mortified to find out about the crash as I've flown the same route and perhaps the same plane a year and a half before.

I understand that there was a shortage of well trained mechanics in Indonesia to service airline equipment. Has the situation changed since?

Also, where in Indonesia are you flying to? I remember when we landed or took off from Yogyjkarta, the runway was in such poor condition that the entire plane I was on bounced on landing because the runway was so bumpy. CGK has a smooth runway. DPS also has a smooth runway. I almost thought the GA crash had something to do with the landing gear breaking off, which made some sense to me, although I could be mistaken because Yogya's runway was so bumpy and in such poor condition.
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Old Mar 15, 08, 4:47 am   #11
 
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If you refuse to fly on Indonesian airlines for safety reasons.. then I certainly hope you apply an equally severe probability-of-death calculation to every other aspect of your life.... just to be consistent you understand...

So... one can only assume you never, ever travel in any kind of motorised vehicle on a public road..... and if "life is short" in Indonesia... one wonders WHY you keep on going there!

No matter which airline you fly the flight will be safer (statistically) than the trip to the airport.... It can be argued that the airline industrys measure.. "passenger miles" tilts the field in their direction (on that basis, so the joke goes, the safest human endeavours ever in the transport field were the Apollo missions to the moon...).. but it is hard to see what other measure is appropriate...

...and I suppose BA is out now too? Well, they did have a crash recently......
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Old Mar 15, 08, 1:13 pm   #12
 
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Originally Posted by trooper View Post
If you refuse to fly on Indonesian airlines for safety reasons.. then I certainly hope you apply an equally severe probability-of-death calculation to every other aspect of your life.... just to be consistent you understand...
I find this argument incomplete. You have to take into account other things. In all things, we are balancing risk versus reward and taking into account alternatives. One can rely solely on statistics, but most people, also rely on judgement. I can improve my likelihood of survival by choosing to fly on safer airlines, by not getting into a Gremlin driven by a suicidal maniac, by staying out of war zones, etc. While I will choose to take some chances in life because the reward to me is worth the risk, it doesn't mean that I have to take a lesser risk when the reward is not as great.
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Old Mar 15, 08, 8:53 pm   #13
 
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Just booked CGK to Makassar on GA

Am in Indonesia over Easter as on business the Monday 24th and Tuesday 25th in Jakarta.

Decided to go early and have a few days holiday as well. Bali flights completely booked up so going to Sulawesi for some rafting.

Booked Garuda as am comfortable with them, would have been okay with Air Asia Indonesia but no way Lion Air or Adam Air, though just noticed on their site it does "THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ORDER AND YOUR CONFIDENCE."

Had some interesting experiences in the past in Indonesia. Once CX insisted I could check through luggage from HKG to DPS via CGK. Err No. had to crawl around the merry-go-round luggage belts under armed guards at CGK to retrieve my bags.

Also flew from Denpasar to Lombok on Merpati CN235. My gf of the time was not convinced the plane was safe. Naturally I assured her no problem despite being able to watch the cowling on the port engine flapping around for the duration of the 20 minute flight.

Last edited by Nicc HK; Mar 16, 08 at 8:58 pm. Reason: Mario 33 for pointing out am going nowhere!
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Old Mar 16, 08, 7:53 am   #14
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Also flew from Denpasar to Bali on Merpati CN235. .
Hhhmmm ......must be a flight to nowhere, unless there are more than 2 airports on the island

I must admit I was a bit apprehensive before boarding a 30min flight from Denpasar to Mataram on Merpati. Never seen such tight pitch on any jet aircraft before, but I didnt notice any part falling off the aircraft
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Old Mar 16, 08, 5:43 pm   #15
 
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I would fly Garuda
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