Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Malaysia Airlines | Enrich
Reload this Page >

MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread

Wikipost is Locked  
Old Mar 17, 2014, 3:08 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: JDiver
PLEASE READ FIRST: WELCOME and MODERATOR NOTE

Welcome to the MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread

If you are new to us, welcome to FlyerTalk!
Who we are: FlyerTalk features discussions and chat boards that covers the most up-to-date traveler information; an interactive community dedicated to the topic of travel.

All travelers are welcome in the community. Just choose a forum: conversing about airlines and their programs, airports, destinations, dining and how to make the most of your miles and points, or visit our Information Desk to start.
We do have some Rules, and everyone agrees to abide by these when they are granted free membership privileges. On a topic that generates a lot of feelings and perspectives, perhaps the most useful one is:

Respect our Diversity - link to this guideline

FlyerTalk members come from all walks of life and all parts of the world. We are as diverse in our makeup as we are alike in our passion for frequent flyer programs. Because we all bring a unique perspective to the forum, our collective experience is broadened, and we gain new insights.

Our diversity demands that we respect each other. Due to the inherent constraints of the Internet, humor, sarcasm, language and slang can be easily misinterpreted - especially when crossing cultural boundaries.

When posting a message, pay extra care to how it might be interpreted. And when you come across a post that offends you, read it with an eye toward giving the poster the benefit of the doubt.

If you have an issue with a post, please contact the member privately or contact a moderator (click on the button). Do not make a situation worse by publicly responding.
MORE about the MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread

In order to a) keep the original thread focused on confirmed news and known facts, and b) allow folks a place to discuss their ideas about what might have happened, the MH370 moderators and Community Director have decided to open this thread.

Here are the expectations:

1. The normal FT TOS apply. (Including not discussing moderation actions on-thread). And please be particularly attentive to "discussing the idea and not the poster" when you have a disagreement. Civility and mutual respect are still expected and are what we owe each other as a community.

2. You are expected respect our diversity , and therefore refrain from posting inflammatory comments about race, religion, culture, politics, ethnicity, orientation, etc." Do not cite, copy, or report on such.

3. Please do continue to be attentive to the sensibilities of the families of those on the flight. Think about if you were them what you would and would not want to see posted. Speculation about what happened is permissible; please, though, do not indulge in inflammatory or overly-lurid descriptions that could well be hurtful.

4. Overly / extravagantly exaggerative posts such as conspiracy theories, posts beyond the realm of science and known facts, etc. as well as posts with information that has been posted several times previously, information that has been posted in the News thread wiki or FAQ, may be deleted.
E.g. the aircraft was vaporized.

In terms of housekeeping, posts may get moved from the "news" thread if and as needed, and posts that do not conform to these simple expectations, above, will be deleted.

Also note: this wiki is locked; changes can only be made by moderators.

Thank you.

Your MH370 Moderation Team
aBroadAbroad; cblaisd; JDiver; l'etoile; NewbieRunner; oliver2002; Prospero
and Community Director
SanDiego1K
Print Wikipost

MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread

Old Apr 22, 2014, 12:22 am
  #1681  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AA,CO, AS
Posts: 58
.. make an AUV much more effective for "mapping" than a vessel on the surface. .....

Not to forget the thermal layers in such a water column and their effects on signals !
pspercy is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2014, 1:15 am
  #1682  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E50K, NEXUS
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by luckypierre
No, they are activated by unusual G forces on the device. Their absence in this tragedy certainly adds to the mystery.
I believe they are also activated by water.

Originally Posted by pspercy
.. make an AUV much more effective for "mapping" than a vessel on the surface. .....

Not to forget the thermal layers in such a water column and their effects on signals !
If you want to go there, you have to also take into consideration salinity and depth. All three, conductivity (salinity), depth and temperature (aka, CDT) all effect the speed of sound, which messes with sonar.

Last edited by cblaisd; Apr 23, 2014 at 7:35 am Reason: merged poster's two consecutive posts
bimmerdriver is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2014, 8:15 am
  #1683  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AA,CO, AS
Posts: 58
Maybe it didn't go into the water ? (Desperation alert).
Sparks a thought tho', has anyone done a low altitude retracing of its track over mainland Malaysia heading west ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ian-Ocean.html
pspercy is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2014, 9:36 am
  #1684  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Programs: Rapid Rewards/AAdvantage
Posts: 1,245
Originally Posted by pspercy
Maybe it didn't go into the water ? (Desperation alert).
Sparks a thought tho', has anyone done a low altitude retracing of its track over mainland Malaysia heading west ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ian-Ocean.html
but what about the pings? what would explain those?
john398 is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2014, 10:08 am
  #1685  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AA,CO, AS
Posts: 58
but what about the pings? what would explain those?

InMarsat pings and/or blackbox pings ? Don't know. I thought BB pings had some sort of ID encoded in the signal ? Anyone know?

What seemed strange to me from published "news" reports was that villager sightings in both Malaysia & the Maldives were so quickly dismissed.
pspercy is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2014, 11:44 am
  #1686  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW London
Programs: BAEC Silver; Hilton Diamond;a miscellany of other hotel non-statuses
Posts: 3,607
Originally Posted by Eryeal
(CNN) Investigators have determined that the missing jet was equipped with four emergency locator transmitters, or ELTs, which are designed to transmit a plane's location to an emergency satellite when triggered by a crash or by contact with water, the source added.

The ELTs were at the plane's front door, its rear door, in the fuselage and in the cockpit, said the source, who was puzzled over why they appear either not to have activated or, if they did activate, why they were not picked up by the satellite.
I've seen several comments on them including:
  1. 4 were included at delivery, but may not still be there.
  2. They have independent battery packs, which may not have ben maintained.
  3. There have been two distress frequencies in use (~100Mhz old and ~400MHz new ?), and monitoring of the old one stopped in 2009 so maybe they were using that frequency.
  4. They can be deactivated from the cockpit.
  5. They are water activated, but the plane sank before water made it into the ELT housing and the radio waves then don't travel well through water to be detected.
  6. They are G-force activated, but the surface impact wasn't violent enough to trigger them.
No idea which of these are facts in general or relate to the ones installed on MH370. Has anyone seen anything vaguely authoritative?

Last edited by EsherFlyer; Apr 22, 2014 at 1:38 pm Reason: Minor typo correction
EsherFlyer is offline  
Old Apr 22, 2014, 7:06 pm
  #1687  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E50K, NEXUS
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by pspercy
but what about the pings? what would explain those?

InMarsat pings and/or blackbox pings ? Don't know. I thought BB pings had some sort of ID encoded in the signal ? Anyone know?

What seemed strange to me from published "news" reports was that villager sightings in both Malaysia & the Maldives were so quickly dismissed.
There are always accounts like the ones from the Maldives. People "saw" TWA800 get shot down by missiles, which was proven to be completely incorrect.

I'll be the first to admit that before the Inmarsat data, I was very open to the possibility that the aircraft had been hijacked and had landed somewhere. However, with the Inmarsat data and the transponder pings from the current search area, I believe such theories are no longer rational. It could easily take weeks or even months to locate the wreckage, but I think there is very little doubt that the search area is in the vicinity where the aircraft went down.
bimmerdriver is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2014, 12:01 am
  #1688  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AA,CO, AS
Posts: 58
Except the reported Maldives sighting was in daylight with description of colours etc.

Could someone confirm if the Black Box pings carry an ID?

Could've sworn I read that they did, if so, has there been any announcement regarding any analysis on said pings ?

.
pspercy is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2014, 6:39 pm
  #1689  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: BNE
Posts: 87
No, a FDR/CVR ping is just that, an acoustic ping not a radio transmission. It carries no data.
trailboss99 is offline  
Old Apr 26, 2014, 7:52 am
  #1690  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: BNE
Posts: 87
Beginning to lose hope here . . .
trailboss99 is offline  
Old Apr 26, 2014, 9:06 am
  #1691  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: AAA
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by trailboss99
Beginning to lose hope here . . .
The Air France was found in an area that had been searched two years prior.

I hate to second guess the Ocean Shield folks because they have done a good job so far. Perhaps they are expanding the radius of search by Bluefin just to keep searching for something while they complete the logistics for the real Plan B?

Maybe they have re-analyzed the actual center of the pings? Otherwise, why not search the primary center of the circle where the pings were heard in a different way? Go cross-ways to the original search with the side-scan sonar, go deeper, etc...
lewko is offline  
Old Apr 26, 2014, 10:19 am
  #1692  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E50K, NEXUS
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by lewko
The Air France was found in an area that had been searched two years prior.

I hate to second guess the Ocean Shield folks because they have done a good job so far. Perhaps they are expanding the radius of search by Bluefin just to keep searching for something while they complete the logistics for the real Plan B?

Maybe they have re-analyzed the actual center of the pings? Otherwise, why not search the primary center of the circle where the pings were heard in a different way? Go cross-ways to the original search with the side-scan sonar, go deeper, etc...
It's not a matter of second guessing. They had to start somewhere and the locations of the detected pings are as good a location as any. However, underwater acoustics are somewhat of a black art, because sound sometimes propagates in very strange ways. I'm sure you've all been in a specially designed (acoustically) room where you can hear a whisper from across the room. Situations where sound propagates unexpectedly far occur in nature. They can be a result of the contour of the sea bed or variations in salinity and/or temperature. So the nominally expected maximum range of propagation of an underwater locator beacon can be exceeded, in some cases dramatically. I've said before that the combination of the Inmarsat data and the detected pings makes it very likely they are searching in the right general area, but they could easily have to search much longer. The reason I say this is specifically because of the distance between the detected pings. It doesn't make sense to me that the wreckage would be spread over such a wide area, therefore the location is probably somewhere in the middle of the pings, in an area where they haven't even begun to search, because they are decided to begin the search in the immediate vicinity around where the pings were detected. When they complete those searches, they will search elsewhere and eventually locate the wreckage, but it could take a long time.

Last edited by bimmerdriver; Apr 26, 2014 at 7:40 pm
bimmerdriver is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 3:31 am
  #1693  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Victoria, Australia
Programs: Qatar, Qantas club, Enrich, Skywards
Posts: 45
Exploration company believes it may have found MH370

Pasting this story here as it sounds very speculative but there may be something of interest in it for those with an interest in mineral technology.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/23036...e-found-mh370/
aussienanna is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 8:29 am
  #1694  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Programs: Rapid Rewards/AAdvantage
Posts: 1,245
Originally Posted by aussienanna
Pasting this story here as it sounds very speculative but there may be something of interest in it for those with an interest in mineral technology.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/23036...e-found-mh370/
That does sound promising
john398 is offline  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 12:40 pm
  #1695  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL Lost Luggage
Programs: Kettle with Kryptonium Medallion Tags
Posts: 10,213
Originally Posted by aussienanna
Pasting this story here as it sounds very speculative but there may be something of interest in it for those with an interest in mineral technology.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/23036...e-found-mh370/
The Bay of Bengal is one of the most polluted areas of ocean[ (wikipedia) in the world. It is where they scrap ships by breaking them up (wikipedia) on beaches. Here's an article with a lot of pictures: Graveyard shift - Dismantling toxic ships in Bangladesh (The Independent - Friday 26 July 2013)

GeoResonance told 7News: “We identified chemical elements and materials that make up a Boeing 777… these are aluminium, titanium, copper, steel alloys and other materials.”
Those same materials are what you end up with when you scrap ships... so, IMHO, it is not a credible lead.
RatherBeOnATrain is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.