Jul 17, 2014, 9:40 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
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This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
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Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
Thank you.
Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)
Jul 17, 2014, 10:44 am
#211
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: LHR- ish
Programs: MUCCI, BA Blue
Posts: 4,295
Indeed not - and it doesn't sound like the plane was delibitrately targeted because of those onboard anyway.
Jul 17, 2014, 10:44 am
#212
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
CBS News reports the Russian government denies any involvement, blames the Ukrainian government in a phone call with Obama.
Jul 17, 2014, 10:45 am
#213
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,605
Having been on this flight (MH17) many, many times (and it being summer holiday time) my guess is that there must be at least 100 Dutch passengers, a mix of other Europeans (Scandinavians, Germans, Brits,....) maybe for a total of 75, many different nationalities from Asia (Malaysians, Singaporeans, Vietnamese, Filipinos, Indonesians,....) and some Australians and New Zealanders.
This flight was also sold as a KLM codeshare. (KL4103)
This flight was also sold as a KLM codeshare. (KL4103)
Jul 17, 2014, 10:46 am
#215
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Moscow
Programs: Marriott Titanium, IHG Diamond AMB
Posts: 1,756
...while the separatists quickly remove all references to the anti-aircraft equipment from their Twitter account:
https://twitter.com/dnrpress/status/483248037629018112
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...48037629018112
https://twitter.com/dnrpress/status/483248037629018112
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...48037629018112
Jul 17, 2014, 10:46 am
#216
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BOS/LON/SEA
Programs: AA Reg
Posts: 161
Thoughts with all the families of those involved. Really awful stuff.
Similar to a previous poster: be aware that there are some particularly graphic images going around Twitter (including pictures tweeted out by CNN & the like), so be aware if you're clicking around.
Similar to a previous poster: be aware that there are some particularly graphic images going around Twitter (including pictures tweeted out by CNN & the like), so be aware if you're clicking around.
Jul 17, 2014, 10:47 am
#217
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Marcos, CA
Programs: DL - DM MM / UA - PP / LH - SEN / Marriott - AMB-LTT / Avis - PC
Posts: 342
Not sure if it's been posted, but a MH17 passenger posted this on FB prior to getting on-board.
"If it disappears, this is what it looks like."
"If it disappears, this is what it looks like."
Jul 17, 2014, 10:48 am
#218
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Aussie in ORD
Programs: Marriott Plat, Ua Gold, GE.. Sucker for punishment
Posts: 4,237
Thoughts with all the families of those involved. Really awful stuff.
Similar to a previous poster: be aware that there are some particularly graphic images going around Twitter (including pictures tweeted out by CNN & the like), so be aware if you're clicking around.
Similar to a previous poster: be aware that there are some particularly graphic images going around Twitter (including pictures tweeted out by CNN & the like), so be aware if you're clicking around.
Just a horrid thing.. unimaginable in this day and age such a weapon would be used against a civilian target.
Jul 17, 2014, 10:49 am
#219
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Marriott Gold
Posts: 952
Not unless they have a countermeasure system such as Flight Guard or CAMPS which most airlines outside of El Al do not use.
This may see more adoption of those systems for commercial aviation.
This may see more adoption of those systems for commercial aviation.
Jul 17, 2014, 10:50 am
#220
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SAN
Programs: AS MVPG, UA Silver, Marriott + SPG Gold, Global Entry
Posts: 302
No, they don't unless the pilot sees it. If they did, I don't think they're maneuverable enough to avoid one. Pulling the necessary G's would probably rip the fuselage apart at 550 mph.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ks/241812.html
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ks/241812.html
Jul 17, 2014, 10:51 am
#222
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,161
Yes, they have "Бук" (Beech) missiles. Of course they bragged about it. On Russian media just about two weeks ago. Now, of course, you can expect rapid fire denials and pages like this to start disappearing pretty quickly. Meanwhile Putin is going to call in some guys I think for what will be some pants filling moments for them.
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1287030
Chrome translation:
DNR militia took control of the military part of the air defense anti-aircraft missile systems "Buk"
Donetsk, June 29. / ITAR-TASS /. Militia representatives proclaimed the People's Republic of Donetsk (DNR) took control of the military part number A-1402 air defense (AD) with anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) 'Beech'. This information was confirmed by ITAR-TASS, the press service of the DNI.
SEE ALSO
Ukrainian Security Council Speaker: militia seized a chemical plant in Donetsk
Quantity and condition complexes caught in possession of militias remains unknown. The press service refused to comment on the DNI any information about it.
"Beech" - self-propelled air defense system, designed to combat maneuvering aerodynamic targets at low and medium altitudes, in heavy electronic countermeasures.
The situation in Ukraine. Chronicle of events. June 29
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1287030
Chrome translation:
DNR militia took control of the military part of the air defense anti-aircraft missile systems "Buk"
Donetsk, June 29. / ITAR-TASS /. Militia representatives proclaimed the People's Republic of Donetsk (DNR) took control of the military part number A-1402 air defense (AD) with anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) 'Beech'. This information was confirmed by ITAR-TASS, the press service of the DNI.
SEE ALSO
Ukrainian Security Council Speaker: militia seized a chemical plant in Donetsk
Quantity and condition complexes caught in possession of militias remains unknown. The press service refused to comment on the DNI any information about it.
"Beech" - self-propelled air defense system, designed to combat maneuvering aerodynamic targets at low and medium altitudes, in heavy electronic countermeasures.
The situation in Ukraine. Chronicle of events. June 29
Jul 17, 2014, 10:52 am
#223
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: London
Programs: A3 Gold | OZ Gold | BD RIP // BA Silver | QR Silver // AF Ivory | KE Skypass
Posts: 19
Looks like KL, VN, TK, QR, AI, DY, BR, EK and LH also fly over Ukrainian airspace, whilst it seems AF doesn't.
Last edited by jbwe350; Jul 17, 2014 at 11:22 am
Jul 17, 2014, 10:52 am
#224
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Programs: KL Gold, SQ KF Gold, CX Green
Posts: 9,403
Jul 17, 2014, 10:54 am
#225
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
FAA banned US carriers from flying over the airspace earlier this year. NBC News just reported that LH has immediately suspended flying over the airspace and presumably the other majors will follow