moondog

On a 737? You didn't miss much. In fact, if the lack of IFE allowed you to get some work done or read a book, then CA did you a favor.

jiejie

Last week I flew in business class on a CA regional flight PEK-SIN. Wasn't voluntary--I had to get rebooked on it when my PEK-BKK flight on TG had to turn back to Beijing with serious engine problems, then cancelled, and I needed to get out that night with no other options. Was the red eye leaving 11:30 pm on a 767-300ER model, 2-2-2 configuration. Load was very light, only 10 people in a 30-seat cabin, and 4 of us were "refugees" from Biz on the cancelled TG flight.

Seat: old style recliner with footrest, very firm cushions. One of most uncomfortable seats I have ever sat in, as I have short legs and the seat is set too high and I couldn't reach the footrest . Might be fine if you were at least 5'-7 though. I ended up using my carryon as a footrest. Pitch was tolerable for regional business class but not up to standard for real long haul. Pillion inbetween seats is fixed so can't be removed to use empty seat next to me. They did recline a lot though. Grade: C-

Crew: FA's quite pleasant and eager to help, I was incredibly surprised. A decent English speaker or two (although I can speak Mandarin). They didn't have a heavy workload and did respond to requests promptly from the 10 of us. Grade: B+ to A-

Food & Beverage: Simple juices and water preflight. Only a light meal due to red-eye: choice of a rice dish, a noodle dish, or western pasta dish with salad, bread and fruit for dessert. Linen service not served on trays but brought by course. I had the western (cannelloni), which was actually very good and comparable to anything I've had on TG or US-based airlines. I don't drink alcohol on flights so can't comment to that, but from looking around my fellow passengers, didn't look like much was available but some were drinking wine or beer. Prearrival just coffee/tea etc available. Grade: B to B+

Entertainment: Overhead screen only which was not used. Not too much of an issue as everybody wanted to sleep on the 6 hour overnight flight. But in daytime regional > 3 hours, a definite minus. Bring a good book or a pack of Sudokus. Grade: n/a (this flight); D (other flights)

Overall: I normally won't book any international flight on a Chinese airline, but in this case had no other option to recover from TG's IRROPS and get to where I needed to be by next day at noon. But for overnight on a regional intra-Asia flight, it's OK though nowhere near state of the art. And if price is right, maybe a value proposition worth considering.

charlotteimmigration

not gonna lie, Air China is terrible.
Lived in beijing for a number of years and can confirm - Fly air china in business if you A) dont drink - they rarely load good/enough alcahol for a flight, was actually just on PEK-LHR, NO champagne/NO white wine/ 1/2 bottle red avail for entire flight.
2) you speak fluent chinese - crew very poor at English (not their fault)
3) Dont really care about food - the selections are poor and the chinese stuff they dish out pretty repulsive more often than not
4) you dont want a true lie-flat seat.
I would stick with BA via LHR or if goign to SFO then United via ICN or Air Canada via YVR
much, much better products. For EWR/NYC- it has to be CO

Jet2K

I don't meant to be a Air China groupie, but I just had not had any bad experience on Air China. From ticketing, lounges, on board service, meals, drinks, everything was acceptable or better. I must admit that I was very skeptical of Air China and for a long time was trying to set my routing to avoid flying them, but so far I have had no complains after many segments. My luck is bounded to run out, or perhaps if I try the back of the bus, the experience will balance itself.

I have had experience on a few premium classes, such as PA, NW, BA, LH, TW, UA, AA, DL, TG, AC, VS, SQ, CX, HP, US, NH, MI, OZ, and many others. It seems to me that the service level really depend more on the individual person providing the service, rather than the airlines. One of the most negative flight I had was on BA in a premium cabin, where the cabin crew that served us appears to have a severe hang-over; another very positive flight was actually on UA in COACH, with service from a Singapore based FA. Of course the vast majority of my BA flight were fabulous, and UA being UA, when they are good, they are really quite good, and when they are not so good, consistency is really lacking. SQ in my opinion has the highest overall standards, and even in an off day, they are still very solid.

The vast majority of my experience on flights are generally positive, and I think Air China is much more like a free-enterprise airline competing in a commercial worlld, than a state-controlled carrier that could care less about turning a profit.

Jet2K

I found a picture of a mid-day meal on a domestic PVG-PEK flight on my wife's blog at http://www.IgoUsee.com/display_blog....10027&lang=_en:


The shrimp is large, cooked just right, and the seasoning is slightly hot and spicy. I am glad that I booked this lunch time flight!

You can read more of her blog at http://igousee.com/display_blog.php?ID=10027&lang=_en

It is about 682 miles from PVG-PEK, less than the 728 miles from NYC-ORD. I can't recall have this type of meal in a similar US domestic flight recently. Compare that meal with the one below on Lufthansa FRA-HEL:

Both are meal from the front cabin. They are both tasty, hits the spot for a lunch meal even though we were at the respective lounges earlier in the morning. Of course there are individual food preferences, but I think they are pretty much on par.

moondog

The bottom picture appears to feature some sort of raw fish? If so, and if not catered in Japan, I would steer clear.

I guess food quality is highly subjective. In other words, for me, the stuff AS dishes out on my PDX-SFO flights is far more attractive than anything I've ever seen on a Chinese airline, but I realize that there are millions of people out there, particularly in China, that disagree. In any event, regardless of my class of service, I try to bring my own fare on board when traveling in China.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

I too have only experienced 'good' things from Air China.

Have been in both the economy and First class cabins for domestic flights and they were on par with many US domestic carriers - in fact Air China was better by far for priority ground handling in the premium cabin.

Food was ok, as others have said the flight attendants were happy to oblige within their level of english expertise.

The seats and legroom were above average for economy, and First class (B777 with sleeper seats) was fine for a short regional flight.

Plus you get amenities not offered by US domestic carriers such as slippers.

They ARE a foreign airline, they do have cheap prices. But they have well maintained western jets and the food and seating is fine (the food is nowhere near exceptional but you get what you pay for). The only real draw back is the lack of IFE.

Jet2K

I thought that it was some kind of marinated herring with dill cream sauce, but Mrs. Jet2K thought that it as some other kind of fish with a salmon mousse. In any event, it is pretty far from Japanese preparation, but I am fairly certain that I enjoyed it .

jennj99738

I was a little confused about the post about no white wine or Champagne on CA. Maybe it was just from LHR or this was a long time ago. I flew CA from SFO to PEK roundtrip February in biz and just found my menus. I thought it would be helpful to post them but unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner and the photos came out bad so typing here we go.

SFO to PEK:

MAIN MEAL

APPETIZER
Tuna and Proscuitto wrapped melon

SALAD

Fresh Seasonal Salad with Oriental Sesame Dressing

ASSORTED BREAD ROLL SERVED WITH BUTTER (this was presented in a basket)

SOUP
Minestrone Soup

CHINESE STYLE MAIN COURSES
Pan-fried Scallops with Chili Sauce accompanied by Steamed Rice, Baby Bok Choy and Carrot
-or-
Fried Sesame Chicken accompanied by Steamed Rice and Chinese Green

WESTERN STYLE MAIN COURSES
Grilled Beef filet with Burgundy Sauce served with Potato Cake, Carrots and Asparagus

SEASONAL FRESH FRUITS PLATE

DESSERT
Strawberry Cheese Cake
-or-
Assorted Cheese with Crackers

*****************************************

MOVIE SNACK

The following snacks are available in the galley:
Haagen Dazs Ice Cream, Fruit Basket and Candy, Cup Noodle and Sandwich. Please help yourself anytime after meal service.

LIGHT MEAL

SALAD

Fresh Seasonal Salad with Greek Vinaigrette Dressing

SEASONAL FRESH FRUITS

CHINESE MAIN COURSES

Dumpling Noodle Soup
-or-
Eggplant with Minced Pork served with Japanese steamed rice and baby bok choy

WESTERN MAIN COURSES

Seafood vegetable crepe served with potatoes red herb roasted

ASSORTED BREAD ROLL SERVED WITH BUTTER

***************************************
PEK TO SFO

CHINESE LUNCH/DINNER

APPETIZER
Ginger Flavored Shrimps
Marinated Cucumber Batonettes

SALAD
Fresh Seasonal Salad Leaf with Thousand Island Dressing

SOUP
Double Boiled Chicken Soup with Ginseng

MAIN COURSES
Steamed Fried Cod Fish with Spring Onion and Ginger served with Steamed Pearl Rice and Seasonal Vegetables

-or-

Twice Cooked Pork Belly Slice served with steamed Pearl Rice and Seasonal Vegetables

-or-

Stir-fried Black Mushroom with Winter Bamboo Shoots accompanied by Jasmine Rice and Chinese Green

DESSERT
Mississippi Mud Cake

-or-

Selection of Cheese with Crackers

SEASONAL FRESH FRUITS

Assorted Bread Roll served with Butter is served in Chinese Lunch/Dinner as well

WESTERN STYLE APPETIZER
Tender Roast Beef with Horseradish Cream

SOUP
Double Boiled Chicken Soup with Ginseng

SALAD
Fresh Seasonal Leaf Salad with French Dressing or Chinese Vinaigrette Dressing

ASSORTED BREAD ROLL SERVED WITH BUTTER

MAIN COURSES
Grilled Beef Tenderloin with Mustard Pesto Cream Sauce served with Fried Sweet Potato

-or-

Stir-fried Black Mushroom with Winter Bamboo Shoots accompanied by Jasmine Rice and Chinese Green

DESSERT
Mississippi Mud Cake

-or-

Selection of Cheese with Crackers

SEASONAL FRESH FRUITS

MOVIE SNACK

The following snacks are available in our galley! Assorted canapes, Cup Noodles, Fresh Seasonal Fruits, Yoghurts, Chocolate

CHINESE BREAKFAST

Pickles, Marinated Bittter Gourd, Selected Chinese Pickles, Salted Duck Egg

Hot Entree- Plain Rice Congee, Pan-fried Corn Cake, Pan-fried Cake with Spring Onion, Fresh Shrimp, Bamboo Pith and Spinach Dumpling

Fresh Fruits

WESTERN BREAKFAST

Hot Entree- Plain Omelette served with Veal Chipolata, Parsley Mashed Potato and Vegetable

Breakfast rolls with Butter

Jam, honey, corn Flakes, milk

Fresh fruits

************
A separate beverage menu was presented on each flight and it was identical on both legs of the trip:

CHAMPAGNE
Champagne Cattier Brut (France)

LIQUORS
Camus VSOP (France)
Glenfiddich Special Reserve 15 Y.O. (Scotch)
Grants Vodka (Scotch)
Grants Gin (Scotch)

WINES
Bordeaux d'Estournel Rouge AOC (France)
Bouchon California Superior Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon (USA)
Greatwall Dry Red Wine (China)
Bordeaux d'Estournel Blanc AOC (France)
Bouchon California Superior Reserve Chardonnay (USA)
Greatwall Dry White Wine (China)

BEERS
Yanjin Draft Beer
Budweiser
Others

LIQUOR BEVERAGES
Soda
Tonic
Ginger

JUICES
Orange, tomato, apple

DRINKS
Coca-cola, Pepsi, Diet Cola, Seven Up, Mineral Water

TEA
Green tea, Longling tea, Jasmine, Chrysanthemum, Lipton Black tea, Oolong, Pu Er

COFFEE
Golden, Cappuccino, Decaffeinated

eponymous_coward

It would appear that I'll be flying CA F next year as part of a US F redemption, going KIX-PVG as part of a "fly to Europe the wrong way" redemption. (My other option was NH in 763 J, which I hear is very nice, but the earlier departure time would have had me going to the airport on the train through Osaka during rush hour- I'll be on a < 24 hour layover. Meh. Pass.)

Right now, the equipment listed is 763 (10F/26J/189Y), which according to seatguru is lie-flat, power, but no IFE. (Granted, it's a 2 hour, 800 mile flight, so I think I'll survive if it's just an overhead movie, and also granted, the equipment could be changed some time in advance- to the point where I might end up in 738 J, even.)

Anyone have any comments/experience on CA's 767s or short-haul international F?

moondog

As long as you temper your expectations and avoid the sushi, you'll be fine. The seats are big.

eponymous_coward

Well, my expectations are tempered by flying a bunch of AS, DL, AA, US and WN Y on 2-4 hour flights.

moondog

US and WN of course (since no F) are the only carriers in your list I would rank below CA on a 2 hour flight. I happen to enjoy AS, DL, and AA.

eponymous_coward

My point was that I'm not at all cowed by a couple of hours in Y on a number of American carriers (all of the airlines listed I've flown in Y, only some of them I've flown in F), so anything on top of that is gravy in my book. I've done several trips in TATL Y, even...

So you'd consider AS Y on a narrowbody for a 2 hour flight to be superior to CA F on a three-class 763? That's a bit surprising, though I suppose if you think the food's gross, the customer service/operations are poor and the seat's irrelevant on that short of a flight, that would make sense. Or are you comparing F to F when making that statement? If it's the latter, that's disappointing. If it's the former that's REALLY making me wonder if I should go on OZ J to ICN or book the NH flight in J to PVG instead, if an American carrier's domestic COACH product is superior to a three-class international F product...

moondog

I was comparing F products; US is the only one you mentioned that I think is worse than CA F, and WN doesn't count because they don't have F.