Old Apr 16, 2016, 7:33 am
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JetSmarter is a membership program that allows members to fly on empty legs of private jets (JetDeals) and seats on scheduled private jet shuttles (JetShuttle).
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JetSmarter - discussion and experiences

Old Mar 28, 2017, 4:55 pm
  #1111  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: San Francisco
Programs: UA Plat, UA Club, Marriott/SPG Gold, Fairmont Premier, Amex Plat
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by OptionsCLE
The Verge is doubling down after their "journalist extortion" article. All in all, this seems like a fair article which highlights the major issues people have been complaining about here (ever-changing benefits, membership fees, non-disparagement language, etc.)

FLIGHT RISK
Legal threats and disgruntled clients: inside the Uber for private jets
http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/28/15...rices-lawsuits
That is an interesting article. It is a strange thing for senior management to complain about 'millionaire clients' being entitled and not wanting to pay for food, transfers, etc. If I was a paying member of their service and heard this:

But when members complain, the response from the company has been to blame the entitlement of the rich. What youre talking about is somebody wont pay a few hundreds dollars to take a helicopter, to get on a private plane? asked Torossian. It sounds to me like very wealthy people, most of whom are very happy with the company, who might feel like the company should be subsidizing everything they do.
I would be livid. Torossian is essentially saying, you are rich enough just give us some more of your money and stop complaining.

The talk about going after the super wealthy and claiming it is not a fit for everyone, trying to be exclusive, also does not jive with their pushy sales attitudes and 'buy now before prices go up a couple thousand' pitch we have all heard. If the former is true, they should know how to sell to this clientele, which they clearly do not.

What do people think about the $28,000 avg rev/client claim? Actual users, are you spending 2x+ base? Do the $45,000 memberships and some big charter spenders skew the mean (i.e. what is median spend)?

Overall a very interesting company to watch.
sfo2bos is offline  
Old Mar 28, 2017, 6:31 pm
  #1112  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland CA
Programs: DL Gold, AS MVPG, Globalist
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by sfo2bos
That is an interesting article.

What do people think about the $28,000 avg rev/client claim? Actual users, are you spending 2x+ base? Do the $45,000 memberships and some big charter spenders skew the mean (i.e. what is median spend)?
I thought the article had some reasonable points, but in some ways felt like a hit piece on JS. The way that Collin et. al. did the research, including via this FT thread, sort of lends some credence toward that. The thing that I don't think the authors did a good job of explaining is that almost all startups go through business model changes, and JS is no exception. Anybody who has enough money to join is (hopefully) business savvy enough to know that they're losing money on the current model, so it either changes or they go out of business. For the most part, changes happen when you renew (e.g. helicopters) and sometimes not even then ( e.g. old smart members aren't being forced to pay for > 3hr shuttles when they renew ). Occasionally, changes happen mid-stream; e.g. food no longer being free.

I'm surprised by the $28K number, although per the article it supposedly came from JS. I suspect they're playing with statistics here, using average and not median. I've heard rumors of $500K charters, so if you add a few of those in and take the average, it could be $28K, while the median is probably less than $10K. That means the revenue number ( $232M ) is probably right, but it misrepresents what the 'typical' user is paying per year.

JS isn't helping itself with stuff like the non-disparagement clause, which they should just remove. The good news is that while they have that in the TOC, to my knowledge they've never used it on anyone. The guys the article cites that were kicked off were doing dumb sh*t that nobody wants to hear about, like talking about their latest female exploits.
dordal is offline  
Old Mar 28, 2017, 8:26 pm
  #1113  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: San Francisco
Programs: UA Plat, UA Club, Marriott/SPG Gold, Fairmont Premier, Amex Plat
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by dordal
I thought the article had some reasonable points, but in some ways felt like a hit piece on JS. The way that Collin et. al. did the research, including via this FT thread, sort of lends some credence toward that. The thing that I don't think the authors did a good job of explaining is that almost all startups go through business model changes, and JS is no exception. Anybody who has enough money to join is (hopefully) business savvy enough to know that they're losing money on the current model, so it either changes or they go out of business. For the most part, changes happen when you renew (e.g. helicopters) and sometimes not even then ( e.g. old smart members aren't being forced to pay for > 3hr shuttles when they renew ). Occasionally, changes happen mid-stream; e.g. food no longer being free.
Definitely do not disagree, and I am sure some things are taken out of context. I guess my point is they could use some executive coaching. Though, plenty of other high profile startups have MUCH worse (real) issues and messaging at the top.
sfo2bos is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2017, 9:03 am
  #1114  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 716
Anyone else notice that Jet Linx empty legs haven't been on the app for the past week?
OptionsCLE is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2017, 10:22 am
  #1115  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland CA
Programs: DL Gold, AS MVPG, Globalist
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by OptionsCLE
Anyone else notice that Jet Linx empty legs haven't been on the app for the past week?
Yeah that's odd.... I haven't seen any in several days whereas before I'd see at least a couple a day. They always had some of the coolest planes too.

I hope it's just a temporary glitch like we've had with XO every once in a while, but I'm a little worried it may not be.... Those XO glitches were usually fixed within 24 hours.
dordal is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2017, 5:26 pm
  #1116  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Just got an email from Jetsmarter that they are running a buy one Simple membership for $5k, get one free. So equivalent of $2.5k for 12 months. Seems like a great deal if you use it more than say 10 times in year which shouldn't be hard between use of the Shuttles and the JetDeals. I have a flexible schedule and can work from anywhere so I have no problem waiting a few extra days to get a shuttle or jetdeal. The Simple membership includes all empty legs and scheduled shuttles under 3 hours but excludes the South Florida to NYC shuttle. You can still get to NYC, by doing South Florida to Atlanta and then Atlanta to NYC though. I'm completely new to private jets and jet sharing, so was hoping to get some thoughts on this?

Also, if I sign up, I plan on only using the "free" shuttles and jetdeals. Does anyone know if there are any hidden costs to those flights (like a hidden tax or airport fee or who knows what)? I know food and drink costs extra, but I don't mind picking up a sandwich on the way to the flight : )
harley9 is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2017, 5:36 pm
  #1117  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,117
Originally Posted by harley9
Also, if I sign up, I plan on only using the "free" shuttles and jetdeals. Does anyone know if there are any hidden costs to those flights (like a hidden tax or airport fee or who knows what)? I know food and drink costs extra, but I don't mind picking up a sandwich on the way to the flight : )
The only "hidden" cost that I can think of for Simple members is the peak travel surcharges during the holidays. There were a few days (I think less than 10) last year when they charged a per-flight fee for shuttles. Shuttle flights over 3 hours as well as helicopter transfers cost money for new Smart members, but I don't think either are available to you as a Simple member.

On shuttle flights the drinks (including beer and wine) and snacks (chips, cookies, etc.) are complementary. If you're departing from one of the airports with premium catering (currently New York and South Florida) you'll have the option to pay $150 for a meal on heavy jets. For heavy jet shuttles from other airports they usually cater complementary salads and sandwiches in addition to snacks. (The heavy jet meals aren't THAT relevant to the Simple membership, but I think that there are a handful of routes served by heavy jets that you can book.)

On JetDeals, technically drinks and snacks aren't supposed to be free, but the vast majority of the time the operator lets you have them for free anyway.
Sykes is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2017, 6:33 pm
  #1118  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 629
Mine says buy "SMART" get one "SIMPLE" membership free. So are there different offers going around? If someone wanted to split a 2 for 1 SIMPLE membership with me, I'd go in with you.

Originally Posted by harley9
Just got an email from Jetsmarter that they are running a buy one Simple membership for $5k, get one free. So equivalent of $2.5k for 12 months. Seems like a great deal if you use it more than say 10 times in year which shouldn't be hard between use of the Shuttles and the JetDeals. I have a flexible schedule and can work from anywhere so I have no problem waiting a few extra days to get a shuttle or jetdeal. The Simple membership includes all empty legs and scheduled shuttles under 3 hours but excludes the South Florida to NYC shuttle. You can still get to NYC, by doing South Florida to Atlanta and then Atlanta to NYC though. I'm completely new to private jets and jet sharing, so was hoping to get some thoughts on this?

Also, if I sign up, I plan on only using the "free" shuttles and jetdeals. Does anyone know if there are any hidden costs to those flights (like a hidden tax or airport fee or who knows what)? I know food and drink costs extra, but I don't mind picking up a sandwich on the way to the flight : )
dval44 is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2017, 6:50 pm
  #1119  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Shoot, you're right. I read the email wrong. Mine is also buy one Smart, get a Simple. That certainly changes the economics of the deal : ) Sorry for the false info.

Originally Posted by dval44
Mine says buy "SMART" get one "SIMPLE" membership free. So are there different offers going around? If someone wanted to split a 2 for 1 SIMPLE membership with me, I'd go in with you.
harley9 is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2017, 7:24 pm
  #1120  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland CA
Programs: DL Gold, AS MVPG, Globalist
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by harley9
Shoot, you're right. I read the email wrong. Mine is also buy one Smart, get a Simple. That certainly changes the economics of the deal : ) Sorry for the false info.
Yeah I confirmed with JS, and its buy one Smart @ $15K; get a free Simple @ $5K.
dordal is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2017, 12:19 am
  #1121  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
A few more questions please:

1)For flights out of a commercial (non executive) airport like FLL or PBI, do you use the normal terminal or there is a separate entrance?

2) Do you still go through TSA or you basically just walk up to the plane and hop on?

3) I assume a bag or two is free to bring along. Is there a policy on at what point they charge you for excess baggage? Golf clubs and surfboards would be free?

4) If a shuttle only has one or two persons reserved, will they still definitely run the flight or do they cancel low turnout shuttles?

5) How often are new shuttle routes introduced? Removed?

6) So the $5k membership includes all shuttles below 3 hours except NY to FL which is excluded. I came up with this list of all such "free" shuttles. Does this sound right?

Miami to Orlando
Miami to Tampa
Miami to Bahamas
Miami to Chicago
Miami to Atlanta
Atlanta to New York
New York to DC
New York to Boston
New York to Chicago
Scottsdale to Las Vegas
Las Vegas to LA
LA to San Francisco
London to Paris
Paris to Nice
London to Milaga
London to Milan
London to Geneva
London to Ibiza
harley9 is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2017, 9:51 am
  #1122  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,117
Originally Posted by harley9
A few more questions please:

1)For flights out of a commercial (non executive) airport like FLL or PBI, do you use the normal terminal or there is a separate entrance?
You'll use the private terminal ("FBO") at that airport. It's dramatically nicer than the public terminal. Most FBOs have free parking, etc.

Originally Posted by harley9
2) Do you still go through TSA or you basically just walk up to the plane and hop on?
For shuttles on heavy jets they'll have a security guy with a trained dog do a quick look through your bags, but that's it. For most other jets, you just walk on. There's no real TSA, nor is there any search of your person.

Originally Posted by harley9
3) I assume a bag or two is free to bring along. Is there a policy on at what point they charge you for excess baggage? Golf clubs and surfboards would be free?
Technically your baggage allowance varies depending on the type of plane, but the written terms are one full-sized suitcase plus one personal item for heavy jets, and on smaller planes the suitcase must be carry-on sized. Having said that, I don't know of anyone that has been charged for excess luggage--I know of several people that have traveled with golf bags and skis. It's generally more of a capacity issue than it is a fee issue--if they run out of space, you're SOL. Your best bet is just to contact the JetShuttle team ahead of time to make sure you'll be ok. The biggest restrictions are on the helicopter transfers.

Originally Posted by harley9
4) If a shuttle only has one or two persons reserved, will they still definitely run the flight or do they cancel low turnout shuttles?
Generally, yes, they will operate the shuttle. I've been on a few mostly-empty shuttles. As a matter of fact, as a public charter operator, unless they cancel more than 10 days before departure they are legally obligated to operate the flight if it is physically possible to do so (ref: 14 CFR 380.12). They get a pass for bad weather or mechanical failure, but they will generally make alternate arrangements on if a shuttle flight is not possible.

Originally Posted by harley9
5) How often are new shuttle routes introduced? Removed?
They were added pretty regularly in 2016, but they seem to have slowed down adding them a bit as of late. Every once in a while one disappears (San Diego <-> LA specifically comes to mind), but they have lately been adding them more than removing them. While I have no specific basis for this, I wouldn't be surprised if they cull a few routes over the next year to optimize their spend, so I wouldn't buy if you only have a single route in mind (but instead are interested in a variety of the offerings). What does change more often are the timings/frequencies of the routes.

Originally Posted by harley9
6) So the $5k membership includes all shuttles below 3 hours except NY to FL which is excluded. I came up with this list of all such "free" shuttles. Does this sound right?
I didn't check your list, but it looked about right. SF<->Vegas was missing. Last year they also ran seasonal NYC<->Hamptons helicopter shuttles during the summer ... they seem to be suggesting they'll come back, and while they're definitely under 3 hours, I'm not sure if they would be included.

Last edited by Sykes; Apr 5, 2017 at 9:58 am
Sykes is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2017, 6:17 pm
  #1123  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Wow, thanks so much for the answers Sykes. You're more helpful than my jetsmarter rep : ) A few follow ups if you don't mind. I think I'm getting ready to pull the trigger.

1) Are the member initiated shuttles free as well? Only the ones under 3 hours I assume?

2) For the short hauls, it seems like they tend to use turboprops. Are these comfortable/desirable?

3) On full flights, does it ever feel cramped, or no matter what, it's still always better than flying commercial?

4) What kind of deals have you guys heard of being negotiated. My current rep is offering an extra 3 months on the 12 month for $5k simple plan. I'm wondering if I can get something better.
harley9 is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2017, 10:47 pm
  #1124  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland CA
Programs: DL Gold, AS MVPG, Globalist
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by OptionsCLE
Anyone else notice that Jet Linx empty legs haven't been on the app for the past week?
Well good news. Jetlinx is back! There's a Jetlinx Kingair on there right now.
dordal is offline  
Old Apr 6, 2017, 10:56 am
  #1125  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,117
Originally Posted by harley9
Wow, thanks so much for the answers Sykes. You're more helpful than my jetsmarter rep : ) A few follow ups if you don't mind. I think I'm getting ready to pull the trigger.

1) Are the member initiated shuttles free as well? Only the ones under 3 hours I assume?
I'm happy to help! While I don't know for sure for Simple members, as a Smart member the member-initiated shuttles look like any other shuttle and are free. The only difference is that someone has paid $$$ up-front to start the shuttle. I do know that Simple members can't actually create member-initiated shuttles, but I'd be surprised if they can't join them once they're created.

Originally Posted by harley9
2) For the short hauls, it seems like they tend to use turboprops. Are these comfortable/desirable?

3) On full flights, does it ever feel cramped, or no matter what, it's still always better than flying commercial?
These questions are pretty closely related, and it's a bit of a mixed bag. I don't mind the turboprops, but I also fly a 6-seat Cessna around in my free time. All of the planes can start to feel a tad bit cramped when they're completely full. The turboprops have plenty of seat width, but leg room is a bit constrained. On the King Airs, all of the seats are pairs of seats that face one-another, so you have to negotiate angling your legs with the person across from you. The Pilatus has some seats in the back that don't face each other; leg room isn't great there, but they can be angled into the aisle after takeoff for extra space.

The jets tend to be quite a bit more comfortable. In many cases the seats still face each other so you have to do the same negotiation, but there's a lot more space to work with. On heavies, the worst seats tend to be when there is a table that seats four people like is pictured at the bottom of the image here. Then you're negotiating leg room and elbow room.

Having said that, on the whole even the worst seats are still more comfortable than many airline seats. Something that is super-relevant is that, even in a less-optimal seat, you're actually in that seat far less time than you are on a commercial flight. You don't go out to the plane until the flight is ready to depart, and only 8 or 12 people have to get seated, so you're not sitting in your seat for 45 minutes waiting for 150 other people to cram the kitchen sink into an overhead bin. You basically sit down, they close the door, and you're departing within 5 minutes.

Originally Posted by harley9
4) What kind of deals have you guys heard of being negotiated. My current rep is offering an extra 3 months on the 12 month for $5k simple plan. I'm wondering if I can get something better.
That seems like a pretty good deal to me, but it's been a while since I signed up so I'm not hearing much about deals they're offering.
Sykes is offline  

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