OK, so I will be the one to start the discussion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot
So it remains unclear whether coolwulf's service uses unethical insider information or uses legitimate but proprietary methods to determine NYOP amounts.
One thing that is clear, however, is the different approach BB and BFT take, in contrast to coolwulf's site: "Give a man a fish, he eats for a day; teach a man to fish, he eats for life." I really do think it's better to teach people how to do things on their own, and use advertising and affiliate links to underwrite the costs, rather than to sell information that cannot be obtained by any known ethical means. Just my 2 cents.
I believe in your saying about teaching a man to fish and he eats for life. But posters at BFT and BB still require a lot of support. Sure they post their winning bids. But they also ask for lots of help.
And it is impractical to "teach a man to fish" with proprietary tools. Do we need this service? Not necessarily - we have the tools to do the "fishing" on our own. We can use BB and BFT. We can enter a relatively low bid and increase our bid in increments until it is accepted. But if someone is uninformed, or doesn't want to spend the time to get informed, this is a valuable service.
Will I use it, even on FT when it is free? Maybe for a last-minute bid or for the fun of it. But I usually do my homework and already know a fairly accurate amount that will be accepted for where I am bidding.
John
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FTI is basically right
but $1.95 is not much money to guarantee a winning bid. It saves time and, until proved otherwise, keeps your bid within the winning ballpark.
I used Coolwulf's services on Sunday afternoon to book a room in Geneva for Sunday night. Obviously I had no time to get turned down and then try again. And I do think that the workaround of changing computers, credit cards, etc. is much more trouble than spending $1.95.
The other area where I see this service as valuable is for cities that do not show up frequently on betterbidding.com or biddingfortravel.com.
Especially on betterbidding.com, there can be several months when a fairly major European or Asian city does not come up on "Other Countries."
And, even if you find a winning bid near the dates of your travel, there is no guarantee that this was among the lowest bids possible. I think that is Coolwulf's unique selling proposition: if he can convince us that the exact figure he provides is what Priceline will take, and not a dollar less, he provides a valuable service.
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I love the service. My time is certainly worth more (in my opinion!) that $1.95. When you consider the time it takes to research and rebid, it can take some time. With this service, I have gotten what is the rockbottom price... I know that because I saw the price paid to the hotel on a bill they accidently gave me....
I know I am not wasting money... nor time.
While I might be interesting in knowing the method, I am happy with the result.
Over in the free bidding help thread, in post #318, coolwulf wrote:
"3.5 star will be the same price as 4*. PL will automatically update the request to a 4* hotel"
That statement is somewhat vague, and there are some subtleties to consider. Difficult for me to interpret because coolwulf can't or won't ID the hotels and their specific minimum bids when he gives advice. Most of us do know that PL can upgrade an accepted offer, and that it happens most often when we'd rather PL wouldn't. I've experienced this many times. The rule-of-thumb up to now has been that Priceline will assign the lowest-priced qualifying hotel to an offer, thus favoring the supplier.
So, for example, this means that if you offer $40 for a 3* hotel, hoping that you'll win the Courtyard and it happens that and the 3* Courtyard has rooms for $33 in PL's system, while the 4* Marriott has them for $39, you would be upgraded and assigned to the Marriott. However, if it was the reverse and the Courtyard had loaded rooms to PL at $39, while the Marriott had them at $33, your 3*/$40 offer would be assigned to the Courtyard, because it was the highest-priced, qualifying, hotel. That said, how PL makes an assignment when there are multiple qualifying hotels with the same asking price is unclear. They may make a quality level upgrade if available, but they may not. Coolwulf seems to imply that the upgrade is automatic and certain, which it may be in the specific case he is advising, but I would disagree that upgrades are always the rule.
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I would probably agree ... it is not automatic and it usually will happen when you do not want it....
For example, a few weeks ago I bid on a 2.5 star expecting the Hampton Inn... and I wanted that for the free wifi... at $35... and they "upgraded" me to the Sheraton which, of course, has no WiFi. In some ways, a downgrade for me.
I do wish Priceline had the option of saying "NO AUTOMATIC UPGRADES"... only give me the star level I requested. If I had wanted a 3 star, I would have bid it.
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot;12484653So, for example, this means that if you offer $40 for a 3* hotel, hoping that you'll win the Courtyard and it happens that and the 3* Courtyard has rooms for $33 in PL's system, while the 4* Marriott has them for $39, you would be upgraded and assigned to the Marriott. However, if it was the reverse and the Courtyard had loaded rooms to PL at $39, while the Marriott had them at $33, your 3*/$40 offer would be assigned to the Courtyard, because it was the highest-priced, qualifying, hotel. That said, how PL makes an assignment when there are multiple qualifying hotels with the same asking price is unclear. They [I
may[/i] make a quality level upgrade if available, but they may not. Coolwulf seems to imply that the upgrade is automatic and certain, which it may be in the specific case he is advising, but I would disagree that upgrades are always the rule.
I always thought an upgrade is automatic. Not sure if this is from BFT, PL website or information that was made public.
Use your example. PL upgrades a customer to the Marriott. Pl gets to keep the $7 overbid in addition to PL fees. The customer gets an upgraded hotel. PL books the highest qualifing rate but in this case the customer was upgraded and is now in the pool of 4* properties.
Although many of us might not want an upgrade (some cases) the computer is going to assume a free upgrade is always wanted.
Over in the free bidding help thread, in post #318, coolwulf wrote:
"3.5 star will be the same price as 4*. PL will automatically update the request to a 4* hotel"
That statement is somewhat vague, and there are some subtleties to consider. Difficult for me to interpret because coolwulf can't or won't ID the hotels and their specific minimum bids when he gives advice. Most of us do know that PL can upgrade an accepted offer, and that it happens most often when we'd rather PL wouldn't. I've experienced this many times. The rule-of-thumb up to now has been that Priceline will assign the lowest-priced qualifying hotel to an offer, thus favoring the supplier.
So, for example, this means that if you offer $40 for a 3* hotel, hoping that you'll win the Courtyard and it happens that and the 3* Courtyard has rooms for $33 in PL's system, while the 4* Marriott has them for $39, you would be upgraded and assigned to the Marriott. However, if it was the reverse and the Courtyard had loaded rooms to PL at $39, while the Marriott had them at $33, your 3*/$40 offer would be assigned to the Courtyard, because it was the highest-priced, qualifying, hotel. That said, how PL makes an assignment when there are multiple qualifying hotels with the same asking price is unclear. They may make a quality level upgrade if available, but they may not. Coolwulf seems to imply that the upgrade is automatic and certain, which it may be in the specific case he is advising, but I would disagree that upgrades are always the rule.
I think you are misinterpreting coolwulf's statement. I take it to mean that in the city, zone, and star level requested, 3.5* is either sold out or costs more than 4* so that particular request would be upgraded (not "updated") to a 4*. Nothing sinister that I can see.
I too wish there would be an option for "no upgrades" since higher star levels often mean no free wifi, no free parking, no free breakfast, etc.
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I take it to mean that in the city, zone, and star level requested, 3.5* is either sold out or costs more than 4* so that particular request would be upgraded (not "updated") to a 4*. Nothing sinister that I can see.
I agree, and this has been my understanding of how upgrades work for quite a few years now.
I'm sure many will remember the scenario in La Quinta (Palm Springs area) a few years ago (huge thread here on FT). A mistake rate of $25 was accidentally loaded into Priceline's computer for the Resort level La Quinta Resort. However, initially, nobody could get the $25 rate because bidding at Resort level requires a minimum $55 bid. But $25 is the minimum accepted bid at the 3* level. So everyone started bidding 3 stars and were upgraded to the La Quinta resort. In that scenario, there was no doubt availability at other 3 and 4 star properties in the zone. It didn't matter, though, because Priceline's computer automatically books you into the highest category available.
I think you are misinterpreting coolwulf's statement. I take it to mean that in the city, zone, and star level requested, 3.5* is either sold out or costs more than 4* so that particular request would be upgraded (not "updated") to a 4*. Nothing sinister that I can see.
I too wish there would be an option for "no upgrades" since higher star levels often mean no free wifi, no free parking, no free breakfast, etc.
Possibly misinterpreting, yes. I did not mean to imply anything sinister, however.
Nevertheless, in your example, If 3.5* costs more than 4*, it would be the assigned hotel (assuming that it's still priced within the amount of the bid) and an upgrade would not occur. If, however, the 3.5* was priced higher than the amount of the bid, it would not be a qualifying hotel, and would therefore not be assigned.
Yes, PL keeps the amount of the overbid. But part of their business model is that they favor the supplier, and assigning the highest-priced, qualifying, hotel is one mechanism to ensure that overbids are minimized, thus satisfying the suppliers that PL is not siphoning off profit that should belong to the supplier. It is up to the suppliers, however, to ensure they load multiple room rates into PL, to keep themselves "in the running" for both "minnows" as well as "whales".
lewisc: This has been the dogma of PL bidding for a long while; I don't remember where or by whom it was first stated, but I have no evidence to the contrary.
but $1.95 is not much money to guarantee a winning bid. It saves time and, until proved otherwise, keeps your bid within the winning ballpark....
I think that is Coolwulf's unique selling proposition: if he can convince us that the exact figure he provides is what Priceline will take, and not a dollar less, he provides a valuable service.
Yes, quite so spainflyer, if coolwulf can convince us, $1.95 is a good price for the guarantee. But so far, despite my requests on the other thread, he has not convinced me; merely denigrated my emergence from the lurk-o-sphere (while welcoming other emergent lurkers who did not dare to question). He says he "guarantees" things, but will not state the nature of the guarantee. In order for a "guarantee" to be anything other than specious hyperbole, it must be backed up in some way. For example, with a refund of the price difference. Some vendors offer "double the difference" guarantees, right? But so far, coolwulf has not stated what his guarantee is. Because I don't really expect that he can or should make such an offer, I consequently take exception to his statement of a "guarantee". Just as coolwulf would have you view him as a "sort of travel agent", you can view me as a "sort of consumer advocate".
3.5 star will be the same price as 4*. PL will automatically upgrade the request to a 4* hotel
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Post 318 in the other thread is key, not to a discussion of upgrades in general, but to showing the astounding depth of Coolwulf's penetration of PL prices. Astonishing.
Yes, quite so spainflyer, if coolwulf can convince us, $1.95 is a good price for the guarantee. But so far, despite my requests on the other thread, he has not convinced me; merely denigrated my emergence from the lurk-o-sphere (while welcoming other emergent lurkers who did not dare to question). He says he "guarantees" things, but will not state the nature of the guarantee. In order for a "guarantee" to be anything other than specious hyperbole, it must be backed up in some way. For example, with a refund of the price difference. Some vendors offer "double the difference" guarantees, right? But so far, coolwulf has not stated what his guarantee is. Because I don't really expect that he can or should make such an offer, I consequently take exception to his statement of a "guarantee". Just as coolwulf would have you view him as a "sort of travel agent", you can view me as a "sort of consumer advocate".
I would like to claim our "guarantee" policy here and hope you will like it.
The suggested price from us will definitely be the minimum winning bid at the time of our suggestion. However it 's possible this minimum winning bid will change through time. (Which means if you bid on priceline several hours/days later espeically when your travel time is appoaching, this minimum winning bid might change.)
If you found out the actually minimum winning bid is one dollar or more less than our suggested bidding price at the time of our suggestion and you can prove it, we'll honor you two more bidding check for free.
Nevertheless, in your example, If 3.5* costs more than 4*, it would be the assigned hotel (assuming that it's still priced within the amount of the bid) and an upgrade would not occur. If, however, the 3.5* was priced higher than the amount of the bid, it would not be a qualifying hotel, and would therefore not be assigned.
Yes, PL keeps the amount of the overbid. But part of their business model is that they favor the supplier, and assigning the highest-priced, qualifying, hotel is one mechanism to ensure that overbids are minimized, thus satisfying the suppliers that PL is not siphoning off profit that should belong to the supplier. It is up to the suppliers, however, to ensure they load multiple room rates into PL, to keep themselves "in the running" for both "minnows" as well as "whales".
I am not sure where your statements come from - do you have any source?
Also, your language is confusing - costs who more - PL or the bidder? "priced higher" by who? The hotel?
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I would like to claim our "guarantee" policy here and hope you will like it.
The suggested price from us will definitely be the minimum winning bid at the time of our suggestion. However it 's possible this minimum winning bid will change through time. (Which means if you bid on priceline several hours/days later espeically when your travel time is appoaching, this minimum winning bid might change.)
If you found out the actually minimum winning bid is one dollar or more less than our suggested bidding price at the time of our suggestion and you can prove it, we'll honor you two more bidding check for free.
That's terrific, coolwulf. And I, too, am astonished by the quality of your information. I hope you can sustain your business and that many travelers will benefit from your help! Good luck.
That's terrific, coolwulf. And I, too, am astonished by the quality of your information. I hope you can sustain your business and that many travelers will benefit from your help! Good luck.
