I am not sure where your statements come from - do you have any source?
Also, your language is confusing - costs who more - PL or the bidder? "priced higher" by who? The hotel?
fti,
As I said to lewisc: "This has been the dogma of PL bidding for a long while; I don't remember where or by whom it was first stated...."
My sources are the public BBS's and extensive (many years) experience in PL bidding. I cannot recall exactly where or when I learned of the PL business model, and I'm certainly not offering a warranty of any kind. But the information is out there, you can search the interweb as well as I. Personally, I have no insider information or connections.
Apologies for the confusion over "costs more". I do try to write as unambiguously as possible. In that statement, I might have been clearer if I'd written:
"...If a 3.5* hotel has rooms priced higher than those of a 4* hotel, then the 3.5* hotel would be assigned..."
Priceline is a publically traded company that makes specific claims about its mode of operation and sets out rules in its terms of service. Their reports detail the proprietary nature of their business and the sanctity of their business model. It is inconceivable that Priceline will not take action if someone is infiltrating their database. They would not take action until they gather enough evidence and show that the actions are damaging their business and their reputation. Priceline's ability to make money from the bidding model is precluded on the assumption that customers will over-bid and Priceline, not the hotel, will keep the difference. In the extreme, if all customers were lost to those who claim to have infiltrated their system, it would make them less competitive. Effectively, they would turn into Hotwire since there would be no need to request a bid if the price is accessible in advance. Priceline may be watching to see what is going on and if its system has been compromised or if an entrpreneur is merely taking guesses. In either case, given Priceline's history of lawsuits and victories, both the vendor and customer involved in a bid by infiltration should be aware of the potential problem.
Hotels can list multiple rates. Many zones have multiple hotels in a given * category. Most of us define "overbidding" as bidding more then the lowest rate available in that zone, at that * level. Some of the money from "overbidding" customers goes to a (different) hotel with a higher PL rate. Some of the money goes to the lowest priced hotel hotel via a higher PL rate. Certainly some of the money from over bidders goes to PL but a lot of the $$ from overbidders goes to hotels.
...Certainly some of the money from over bidders goes to PL but a lot of the $$ from overbidders goes to hotels.
What is the point here? Priceline derives income from collecting more than they give the hotel. They try to induce higher bids at every turn - not to help the hotels. Their agreement is to match the bid to the nearest set price below the bid that meets the star and location request. Then they keep the difference. If someone infiltrates the system to make it so that they don't get this difference, they lose their major revenue stream. This does not affect the hotels.
I agree completely with B1. How far into the Priceline "vault" would one have to burrow to be in a position of knowing beforehand that a bid at the 3 1/2* level in a particular Zone would be upgraded to the 4* level? Answer: free run of the vault. Coolwulf must be working for Priceline.
What is the point here? Priceline derives income from collecting more than they give the hotel. They try to induce higher bids at every turn - not to help the hotels. Their agreement is to match the bid to the nearest set price below the bid that meets the star and location request. Then they keep the difference. If someone infiltrates the system to make it so that they don't get this difference, they lose their major revenue stream. This does not affect the hotels.
No. The major revenue PL got is not the difference you're talking about. The major revenue is the difference between the minimum bid and what PL give to hotels. Betterbidding and BFT have been there for years and a lot of people are already bidding the price very close to the minimum bids. What we did is only to tell you where the minimum bid is. The major revenue PL got is not affected. The difference between customer's actual bid and the minimum bidding price (or you can call it overbidding) is the extra money PL got out of their major revenue.
No. The major revenue PL got is not the difference you're talking about. The major revenue is the difference between the minimum bid and what PL give to hotels.
Quote:
What we did is only to tell you where the minimum bid is. The major revenue PL got is not affected. The difference between customer's actual bid and the minimum bidding price (or you can call it overbidding) is the extra money PL got out of their major revenue.
Do these statements contradict each other? Can you clarify this?
I believe the statement from B1 is spot on correct. Priceline hopes that you bid higher than the minimum "offer" (the prices that hotels load into the system) so that this overbid goes right into PL's pockets in addition to its fee. The difference between the remittance from Priceline to the hotel (which covers room and tax) and what you pay to Priceline can be as much as 25% or more. Next time, check your folio on the in-room entertainment system and you may see the amount that PL remits to the hotel, compare it to your bid including taxes and fees and you might be surprised as to how much PL makes on a reservation. It sure beats the good old days when agents made 10% on a reservation.
I have always contended that Priceline functions much like a market maker does on behalf of buyers and sellers in the stock market, with the exception that PL does not own any inventory, because just like fruit, room inventory has a shelf life before it goes rotten. Priceline accepts room inventory from hotels at various price points; these are offers. Customers submit bids for this inventory, Priceline matches the bids to the offers and a successful trade is made as long as the bid is higher than the offer and collects a fee plus the overbid for making a market.
There seem to be several "new" members of FT showing up in that bidding help request thread. Is it possible that some existing members are re-registering under a different alias in order to take advantage of coolwulf's services beyond their free limit?
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I was thinking just the opposite-- that there's a post on some other "deals" or travel forum pointing to the FlyerTalk thread, and that these posters really are new.
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I was thinking just the opposite-- that there's a post on some other "deals" or travel forum pointing to the FlyerTalk thread, and that these posters really are new.
Look at the "Member Announcements" section of Bidding for Travel. People are complaining that coolwulf is sending private messages to members to try his services.
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I agree with Tom's assessment.... "Free" will bring people out of the woodwork....
I personally appreciate the service.... and have not problem with it being advertised as it was on another site.... Kinda ironic isn't it.... you post to complain about someone marketing their service... and you end out giving them even greater exposure.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom911
I was thinking just the opposite-- that there's a post on some other "deals" or travel forum pointing to the FlyerTalk thread, and that these posters really are new.
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I see a lot of value in CoolWulf's service, and appreciate the offer to try it for free. So kudos for that (assuming his info source is not illegal).
Now, there's nothing wrong with advertising on another website - really, that's what is being done here on Flyertalk too - but sending unsolicited messages is spam, by definition. That's a business practice that should be changed. And unless he's including instructions for opting out and honoring those requests, he may be in violation of the can-spam law.
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Look at the "Member Announcements" section of Bidding for Travel. People are complaining that coolwulf is sending private messages to members to try his services.
It has already been discussed in the other thread and a lot of users are aprreciated for trying this service by registerring Flyertalk forum.
And we're not sending private messages any more after the discussion in another thread.
It has already been discussed in the other thread and a lot of users are aprreciated for trying this service by registerring Flyertalk forum.
And we're not sending private messages any more after the discussion in another thread.
Good move! I've been under the opinion these past few weeks that your service is unique enough to build and survive on its own. Period.
To be able to eliminate my research time by paying you $1.95, while bidding through BetterBidding's affiliate link is a win for me, a financial win for both you and BetterBidding, and finally a win for the Internet community who can gain from the data I post at BetterBidding.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B1
Priceline may be watching to see what is going on and if its system has been compromised or if an entrpreneur is merely taking guesses. In either case, given Priceline's history of lawsuits and victories, both the vendor and customer involved in a bid by infiltration should be aware of the potential problem.
I'm waiting for the Randy Petersen seal of approval before I request bidding information. Some may not have seen his message buried in the middle of the bidding thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Petersen
I see there have been some posts regarding the source of the information and other items relative to these types of services. I'll remind everyone that services such as ExpertFlyer, KVS and even SeatGuru and SeatExpert all got their start here on FlyerTalk, so the option to allow this member to help other members (even somewhat commercially) is a long established tradition that we have granted others.
Now, there has been some conversations regarding the source of the information. I don't think it is necessary for that to become a topic unto its own and volunteer to take that on as my project which will keep some of the bank and forth to a very low minimum. I'll report back in the somewhat near future once I feel comfortable I can answer the questions previously posted. Thanks for understanding and thanks for your continued support of FlyerTalk.
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