Oneworld Explorer Rule Changes that we would like to see

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Aug 5, 2016, 7:27 pm

#16

wandering_fred

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: country Western Australia

Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)

Posts: 2,771

The southern hemisphere xONE3 was mentioned, but the GRU-JNB flight disappearing would also eliminate the xONE4 that included north, south america, africa and (asia/swp)and require an xONE5 fare.

Happy wandering

Fred

Aug 6, 2016, 3:30 am

#17

pandaperth

Original Poster

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere

Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD

Posts: 3,467

OK let’s discuss the origin-destination open jaw rule, which is:

4(c) Travel may originate at any point for which fares are published and must terminate at the same point, except that origin-destination surface segments are permitted as follows

(a) within the country of origin
(b) within the Middle East
(c) between the United States and Canada
(d) between HKG and China
(e) between Malaysia and SIN
(f) within Africa
(g) between Maldives & Sri Lanka/India

My opinion is that it is very generous to some origins and stingy to others

Generous Examples:

(f) within Africa – lots of us have taken advantage of this for our ex-MPM itineraries
(b) with the Middle East – lots of us took advantage of this for our ex-KRT itineraries
(c) between the United States and Canada – so start at HNL and end at JFK

Stingy examples:

Geographically small countries, such as Holland, Belize, Caribbean island nations…

I guess that we would all like to see the rule say:

4(c) Travel may originate at any point for which fares are published and must terminate in the same continent
Or even
4(c) Travel may originate at any point for which fares are published and may terminate anywhere

OK I know the ticket is named a Round-The-World ticket, but from the airlines’ perspective what is wrong with having flexibility such as these? After all, we are still limited to 16 flights maximum.

What do others think?

Other points:

In post #13 above headinclouds suggested a new exception
(h) within Europe
Which, with the current definition of Europe, could mean something like originate in Germany and end in Morocco

_____________________________

Another issue with this rule has arisen recently – see post #144 in this thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...periences.html
The OP wanted to originate in Russia West of the Urals (in other words in Europe) and finish in Russia East of the Urals (in other words in Asia), but origin and destination are in the same country. This was on a Global Explorer, not a Oneworld Explorer, but both fare rules have the same words for this rule. The ticketing airline refused – presumably because it felt you had to return to the same continent and same TC area as well as to the same country. When the whole of Russia was defined to be in Europe, this problem would not have arisen.

_____________________________

In my view, a couple of the exceptions could be removed:

(d) between HKG and China
– as pointed out by christep in post #7, nowadays this is covered by (a) within country of origin
(e) between Malaysia and SIN
– IIRC this predates MH’s joining the alliance
(g) between Maldives & Sri Lanka/India
- IIRC this came in when BA commenced its LGW-MLE service, it certainly predates UL’s joining the alliance, which has services to MLE, and the commencement of CX’s HKG-MLE services

So, what do others think?

Aug 6, 2016, 8:23 am

#18

wandering_fred

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: country Western Australia

Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)

Posts: 2,771

Given the premiums that the airlines charge on a per sector basis I can't see this happening... But with AA adding a premium Y cabin, I would really really like to see a premium Y RTW added to the rules...

Now back to more realistic wandering

Fred

Aug 8, 2016, 11:44 am

#19

JAXBA

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: JAX

Programs: Ex-BA/AA/CP/LY staff, BA Executive Club Blue, IHG Diamond, Marriott Silver, Chick-fil-A Red

Posts: 3,586

Quote:

Originally Posted by headinclouds

Travel may originate at any point for which fares are published and must terminate at the same point, except that origin-destination surface segments are permitted as follows:

Add within Europe.

Countries that use the Euro have the same fare, so why not start in Germany and end in Spain. Also, many of the African fares are quoted in US $ and are the same. Why not Europe as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandaperth

Which, with the current definition of Europe, could mean something like originate in Germany and end in Morocco

They could narrow it slightly by saying 'within the European Union' or more generously, 'within the European Economic Area' which is the EU+Iceland+Norway (and +Switzerland if defined as the European Free Trade Association (EFTA)). Not sure what level of association the UK is going to end up with after Brexit yet...

I don't think an origin/destination open-jaw 'within the EU/EEA/EFTA zone' would be unreasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wandering_fred

I agree, it'd be nice to see. Slight issue in that, for now, very few of the booking classes for PE are aligned, unlike A/D/L, and there wouldn't be a straightforward name for the hypothetical PEONEx.

The current longhaul PE surcharges are silly compared to the overall cost of a RTW though.

Aug 8, 2016, 7:18 pm

#20

Himeno

Join Date: Jul 2007

Programs: QFF

Posts: 5,304

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAXBA

Not unreasonable, but would need to disallow the EU "outermost regions" (the French, Spanish and Portuguese holdings that are considered part of the EU but are in Africa or the Americas).

Sep 6, 2016, 10:03 am

#21

pandaperth

Original Poster

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere

Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD

Posts: 3,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandaperth

I have an expectation (or maybe it is just a hope) that a new version of the rule sheet will be published in September.
Why? Because JJ commences GRU-JNB services, thus making possible 3-continent itineraries that start in the southern hemisphere continents (for example SYD-SCL-GRU-JNB-SYD).

So I expect the following words to be removed from Rule 0 (zero):

* 3 Continent Fare is only offered for travel originating in Asia, Europe/Middle East and North America

(and I further expect 3-continent fares to be published for countries in the southern hemisphere continents).

...

Well it seems my hopes have been dashed. It is now Sept 6th and no sign of a new version of the fare rules.
No sign of xONE3 fares in EF either (though I only checked business class ex-SYD)
Also, I have plugged into the on-line tool a very simple 3-continent all southern hemisphere itinerary (SYD-SCL-GRU-JNB-SYD). The tool says it is a valid itinerary, but it prices it as four-continents.

If there is a lurker - what's going on??

Sep 6, 2016, 11:31 am

#22

JAXBA

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: JAX

Programs: Ex-BA/AA/CP/LY staff, BA Executive Club Blue, IHG Diamond, Marriott Silver, Chick-fil-A Red

Posts: 3,586

Nope, no xONE3s out of JNB either yet, in any class.

Maybe they're hesitating because two thirds of a Southern Hemi xONE3 would have to use the GRU-JNB-SYD flights, and they don't want a product based on that?