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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTravel
As I've said since the beginning of this thread, Muslim extremism isn't Islam anymore than Jewish extremism is Judaism or Christian extremism is Christianity.
I am in complete agreement with you here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTravel
With respect to Mumbai, everything I'm hearing on the BBC (CNN's world service is worthless) is that the murderers were trained by at least one Muslim extremist group.
That they may have come from Pakistan is meaningless -- nothing points to Pakistan's involvement in this disaster.
Oh Really? People who are not familiar with the dynamics of the region should not pass themselves off as experts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaatri
Oh Really? People who are not familiar with the dynamics of the region should not pass themselves off as experts.
I've never suggested I'm an expert on the dynamics of the region. My earlier statement was simply representative of wishful thinking based on the then-available facts. I don't want to see a hot war between two nuclear powers in a region that seemed to have been making some progress towards less hostile relations. If, in fact, there was participation by the Pakistani government, as opposed to the terrorists belonging to a group that was based in Pakistan, it will not bode well for the world, much less for India.
There is still no strong indication that the Pakistani government was involved in the attack. It may well be that even if the government didn't actively involve itself in the attack, it did wink at those who were involved. But it also may be that the Pakistani government was unaware that it was going to occur. Even if it were proven that the government was directly involved, measures other than war would be the prudent route. War would just lead to more deaths with no resolution.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMSN
There is still no strong indication that the Pakistani government was involved in the attack. It may well be that even if the government didn't actively involve itself in the attack, it did wink at those who were involved. But it also may be that the Pakistani government was unaware that it was going to occur. Even if it were proven that the government was directly involved, measures other than war would be the prudent route. War would just lead to more deaths with no resolution.
BBC as wel as The Observer did some excellent investigative work in which they confirmed the Indian story and traced the lone surviving terrorist to his native village of Faridkot.
Since then all three Faridkots (yes, there are three of them) have been heavily guarded by police so outsiders cannot get access to villagers to ask any questions. WHHY?
The police are depolyed by non-stae actors?
Despite all these leads Zardari continues to say they have nothing to go on? Why doesn't the GoP pursue those leads instead of perversely resisting to act on those leads?
despite Zardari's denials that the lad captured by Indians is Pakistani, Nawaz Sharif says he is a Pakistani.
On the one hand Zardari denies any Pakistani connection, even the fact that at least one of the attackers is a Pakistani National, what is tghe reason for pretending to go after Lashkar-e-Toiba?
One doesn;t have to be a genius to know that PAkistan has layed this game for far too ong. In 2001, the U.S. was not willing to implicate Pakistan openly in terrosism against India. Could it be that exposing ISI posed danger of exposing other unsavory links between ISI and CIA?
For whatever reasons, the picture has changed now. For some reason, the U.S. is not willing to ignore India's pain like it was in 2001.
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Those who sacrifice liberty of some to purchase a little temporary safety, will have neither liberty nor safety.
BBC as wel as The Observer did some excellent investigative work in which they confirmed the Indian story and traced the lone surviving terrorist to his native village of Faridkot.
Since then all three Faridkots (yes, there are three of them) have been heavily guarded by police so outsiders cannot get access to villagers to ask any questions. WHHY?
The police are depolyed by non-stae actors?
Despite all these leads Zardari continues to say they have nothing to go on? Why doesn't the GoP pursue those leads instead of perversely resisting to act on those leads?
despite Zardari's denials that the lad captured by Indians is Pakistani, Nawaz Sharif says he is a Pakistani.
On the one hand Zardari denies any Pakistani connection, even the fact that at least one of the attackers is a Pakistani National, what is tghe reason for pretending to go after Lashkar-e-Toiba?
One doesn;t have to be a genius to know that PAkistan has layed this game for far too ong. In 2001, the U.S. was not willing to implicate Pakistan openly in terrosism against India. Could it be that exposing ISI posed danger of exposing other unsavory links between ISI and CIA?
For whatever reasons, the picture has changed now. For some reason, the U.S. is not willing to ignore India's pain like it was in 2001.
This is all post-raid action. It proves that Pakistan doesn't want a black eye, but doesn't prove much else. One can guess at more, but those guesses remain without proof.
BBC as wel as The Observer did some excellent investigative work in which they confirmed the Indian story and traced the lone surviving terrorist to his native village of Faridkot.
.................................................. ....................................
One doesn;t have to be a genius to know that PAkistan has layed this game for far too ong. In 2001, the U.S. was not willing to implicate Pakistan openly in terrosism against India. Could it be that exposing ISI posed danger of exposing other unsavory links between ISI and CIA?
For whatever reasons, the picture has changed now. For some reason, the U.S. is not willing to ignore India's pain like it was in 2001.
You do realize that the ISI don't take orders from the Presidential office !!!!!
They have their own agendas and if you don't agree with them or interfere - you are history. Mush was a good example of how to "share power" with them.
Thus Pakistan can't be blamed as a whole for the actions and reactions of a few "rogues" and/or opportunistic power grabbers. Sharif is playing his political game once again.
As far as the BBC's investigation - I will take it with a grain of salt -same as the findings of Scotland Yard in the murder of Bhutto as well as the involvement of Interpol in the Mumbai's massacre.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euslaner
Never stopped you on Israel.
The depth of India-Pakistan dynamics displyed by your post is astounding. Are you here to discus Mumbai attacks terrorism or is your agenda something else?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodo
You do realize that the ISI don't take orders from the Presidential office !!!!!
They have their own agendas and if you don't agree with them or interfere - you are history. Mush was a good example of how to "share power" with them.
Thus Pakistan can't be blamed as a whole for the actions and reactions of a few "rogues" and/or opportunistic power grabbers. Sharif is playing his political game once again.
As far as the BBC's investigation - I will take it with a grain of salt -same as the findings of Scotland Yard in the murder of Bhutto as well as the involvement of Interpol in the Mumbai's massacre.
You know better than that dodo. I am not blaming Pakistan as a whole. The power grabbers, as you have called them, are doing what they feel will strengthen them in the eyes of Pakistani people, the Army/ISI, the U.S. and India, as well as the world. It's a difficult balancing act that even Musharraf could not continjue forever. Grain of salt is one thing, but a whole mountain of salt is quite another. I agree that Nawaz Sharif is trying to strengthen himself by increasing his appeal to the U.S. It would be really foolish for him to acknowledge that the lone captive is a Pakistani. Don't forget that a man, confessing to be Kasab's father, has also acknowledged to The Dawn that the the man portrayed by Indians as the lone surviving attacker is his son. So grain(s) of slat will change the flavour but it's still the same curry.
__________________
Those who sacrifice liberty of some to purchase a little temporary safety, will have neither liberty nor safety.
The depth of India-Pakistan dynamics displyed by your post is astounding. Are you here to discus Mumbai attacks terrorism or is your agenda something else?
So what's your agenda? Since I haven't posted on India-Pakistan dynamics you must have some other agenda. FWIW, I am no fan of Pakistan. I also don't think that the attacks on Jews in Mumbai were random.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaatri
You know better than that dodo. I am not blaming Pakistan as a whole. The power grabbers, as you have called them, are doing what they feel will strengthen them in the eyes of Pakistani people, the Army/ISI, the U.S. and India, as well as the world. It's a difficult balancing act that even Musharraf could not continjue forever. Grain of salt is one thing, but a whole mountain of salt is quite another. I agree that Nawaz Sharif is trying to strengthen himself by increasing his appeal to the U.S. It would be really foolish for him to acknowledge that the lone captive is a Pakistani. Don't forget that a man, confessing to be Kasab's father, has also acknowledged to The Dawn that the the man portrayed by Indians as the lone surviving attacker is his son. So grain(s) of slat will change the flavour but it's still the same curry.
I am more than willing to defer to your knowledge of the region which, admittedly, is greater than my own. I'd like to know your opinion of what actually is happening. Is Pakistan sliding into Islamic fundamentalism? Does it have expansionist plans with regard to India? I know Kashmir has long been an issue between the two countries. Do you think this signals increased tension over that disputed region?
To the west (and to most Jews) the Mumbai massacre appears to be merely the latest outrage perpetrated by fringe radical Islamists (which, of course, is not all Islam), following the London train bombings, Bali hotel bombings, etc. Is there something else going on?
Gee, doesn't the thread topic doesn't tell you anything? Did you forget to put your glasses on? Or did you forget your meds?
That you haven't posted anything about the topic is precisely the point. What brought you here? Did you just wander in? Welcome to the thread. Feel free to participate in the discussion if you have something to say. Sensible people are wondering what your agenda is. We have been discussing Mumabi attacks and expressing pour opinions who might be the responsible partie(s). WE have no interest in dividing the victims by their religious affiliations. You sem to have missed a whiole bunch of people died.
Noooooooooooooo, Are you serious? Did you mean Pakistan or Muslims?
OK.
Now you have solved the whole mystery. Case closed.
Your words reveal your agenda. I didn't realize that there was a quota on how many posts one has to make.
You say that you have "no interest in dividing the victims by their religious affiliations. You sem to have missed a whiole bunch of people died."
Who has disputed you that many people have died? But many people have disputed you that Jews were not specifically targeted. You seem to deny both that and the fact that one can have tremendous sympathy for all of the victims and recognize that some were specifically targeted.
Does it annoy you that Israel and India have become much closer in recent years?
And as to your personal attacks on me: I have written with a Muslim co-author on the reasons why Americans have such negative opinions about Muslims--and I daresay that I have as many (if not more) Muslim friends than you might have Jewish friends.
...Oh Really? People who are not familiar with the dynamics of the region should not pass themselves off as experts.
Living somewhere doesn't mean you're necessarily an expert either. For example, polls after our recent constitutional crisis revealed a lot of Canadians didn't fully understand how a parliamentary democracy works.
