... When officials said that the killers came from the Pakistani terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, it was taken as proof that India’s misdeeds in the Kashmir Valley were the cause.
These misdeeds are real, as are India’s other social and political failings (I recently met a Kashmiri man whose father and sister had died at the hands of the Indian security forces). But there is no sane reason to think Lashkar-e-Taiba would shut down if the situation in Kashmir improved. Its literature is much concerned with establishing a caliphate in Central Asia, and murdering those who insult the Prophet. Its leader, Hafiz Saeed, who lives on a large estate outside Lahore bought with Saudi Money, goes about his business with minimal interference from the Pakistani government.
Lashkar-e-Taiba is part of the International Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders (the Qaeda franchise). Mr. Saeed’s hatreds are catholic — his bugbears include Hindus, Shiites and women who wear bikinis. He regards democracy as “a Jewish and Christian import from Europe,” and considers suicide attacks to be in accordance with Islam. He has a wider strategy: “At this time our contest is Kashmir. Let’s see when the time comes. Our struggle with the Jews is always there.” As he told his followers in Karachi at a rally in 2000: “There can’t be any peace while India remains intact. Cut them, cut them — cut them so much that they kneel before you and ask for mercy.” In short, he has an explicit political desire to create a state of war between the religious communities in India and beyond, and bring on the endgame...
If Lashkar-e-Taiba would exist regardless of the situation in Kashmir, why is that so? The fact that they have an extreme Islamicist agenda does not speak to why Lashkar would endure. The money has to be coming from SOMEWHERE. Who is financing this operation? Who is arming them? Who is teaching young people like this Kasab character and encouraging them to commit terrorist acts in support of the establishment of this caliphate? Pakistan needs IMF money; they hardly have a surplus of money to finance these kinds of operations, even if they wanted to.
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If Lashkar-e-Taiba would exist regardless of the situation in Kashmir, why is that so? The fact that they have an extreme Islamicist agenda does not speak to why Lashkar would endure. The money has to be coming from SOMEWHERE. Who is financing this operation? Who is arming them? Who is teaching young people like this Kasab character and encouraging them to commit terrorist acts in support of the establishment of this caliphate? Pakistan needs IMF money; they hardly have a surplus of money to finance these kinds of operations, even if they wanted to.
And by the way, this is the second or third time I've asked this question, and nobody has hazarded a guess. I think it's important to find out who is financing it and to put a stop to it, or else all you are doing by busting some heads in Pakistan or Kashmir (as I said before) is playing whack-a-mole. It's the MONEY that is crucial, IMO. If the financiers lose mercenaries, politicians get good PR, but the financiers simply go out and buy more mercenaries. Wash, rinse, repeat.
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Update from India: Things are pretty calm and people in Mumbai are going about their business as usual, just as New Yorkers did after 9/11. What's interesting is that there is while there is tremendous anti-Pakistan sentiment, there is no apparent anti-Muslim sentiment on the part of the non-Muslims in India (such as that espoused by some earlier in this thread). It is remarkable How Hindus, Muslims and all Indians have come together after this tragedy.
As an aside, I was on a domestic flight within India yesterday and my aircraft had numerous identifiably dressed Muslim men and women, some of them even reading prayer books. There were also a number of Sikhs. Neither the pilots, nor the flight attendants, nor any of the pax got freaked out.
I am impressed that the muslim body that co-ordinates the Babri Masjid protests has called off protests this year.
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If Lashkar-e-Taiba would exist regardless of the situation in Kashmir, why is that so? The fact that they have an extreme Islamicist agenda does not speak to why Lashkar would endure. The money has to be coming from SOMEWHERE. Who is financing this operation? Who is arming them? Who is teaching young people like this Kasab character and encouraging them to commit terrorist acts in support of the establishment of this caliphate? Pakistan needs IMF money; they hardly have a surplus of money to finance these kinds of operations, even if they wanted to.
I read something this morning. Draw your own conclusions
I read something this morning. Draw your own conclusions
After simply skimming this (as its quite long, though I will read it later), some of this is not news to me. I am certainly aware that there are well-placed interests which seek to destabilize and divide Pakistan further, for reasons which would sound tinfoil if I went into it - just based upon what I can piece together on my own and my knowledge of Pakistan's history.
I am hopeful that an Obama administration will start to put an end to this skullduggery, though it predates him and will outlast his two terms, I'm sure.
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Originally Posted by Quickfire
No, another poster suggested that.
??? What other poster suggested what? This must be a so important a thread that people are drawn to it immediately upon joining FT. A case of multiple personality/identity?
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Originally Posted by anonplz
And by the way, this is the second or third time I've asked this question, and nobody has hazarded a guess. I think it's important to find out who is financing it and to put a stop to it, or else all you are doing by busting some heads in Pakistan or Kashmir (as I said before) is playing whack-a-mole. It's the MONEY that is crucial, IMO. If the financiers lose mercenaries, politicians get good PR, but the financiers simply go out and buy more mercenaries. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Source of funding and motivation are two very relevant aspects. As for source of funding,following dichotomy exhausts all possibilities. Funding comes from sources within Pakistan, or funding comes from sources outside Pakistan. That IMF had to step in to rescue Pakistan's economy is to detract from the issue. Terrorism does not require a lot of money, assuming Pakistan Govt is the sole source of funding. Pakistan's economy was bankrupt even in 2001, when it was rescue by Bus in the name of war against terror. Why do you think Jamat-ud-Dawa is? It's the successor to LeT. When LeT was banned, Hafeez Saeed, the founder of LeT founded JuD. It's a charitable organisation. JuD did a lot of work follwoing the earthquake in Pakistan. Charotable front is a good way of raising money even if some scream anti-something slogan for suggesting. It will be no news for anyone that Pakistani, govt and./or non-Govt actors have had motivation for spreading terrorism. But none of all that means that they did it this time too. If reports of the lone terrorist confirming his identity and that of is accomplices as Pakistani nationals is correct, it does point towards Pakistan.
Now lets look at the other possibility. In the past, the U.S. officials have scoffed at Indian suggestions of labeling Pakistan a sponsor of terrorism. Even Outfits such as LeT were banned after 2001. Condy Rice rebuffed A.B. Vajpayee for suggesting that the U.S. pressure Pakistan into extraditing those wanted for terrorism in and by India. For years the U.S. continued to extoll Pakistan as a frontline state in the war against terror. If Pakistan were as described by the U.S., who was responsible for terrorism in India? I always complained, here on FT about double standard practice by our Govt in regards to terrorism. I pointed this out regading Iraq war too. Our Govt had shown that war against terrorism was a slogan. Terrorism against India by its longstanding ally was ignored. Gradually some neo-cons started to see Pakistan differently. Here on FT also, there was talk about some that "After Iraq, it will be Iran and Pakistan". The U.S. officials also started making noises bout Pakistan not doing enough to catch terrorists. This slow turnabout (360 on terms of popular American terminology) is now complete. The Secretary of State made a statement, "We have irrefutable evidence that Pakistani's are involved". I almost fell of my chair. Americans, for the first time, were blaming Pakistan in an act of terrorism that took lace in India. Does that switch mean that the U.S. needs an excuse to get into Pakistan as it did to enter Grenada, Panama, and Iraq? Or is it because the U.S. Citizens were killed? One other thing that's news is that Jews were killed in this attack. Why were Jews killed? Screaming anti-semitism as the cause is, not being open to possibilities. After decades of terrorism in India without going without involving Jews why the sudden switch? Omar Shiekh Saeed was specifically warned to stay clear of Israelis, when he was told to kidnap white European tourists in Kashmir. Not becasus that they had deep love for Israelis, but because they did not want to stir up hornets nest by inviting Israeli retribution. Why would they seek Israeli wrath now?
Why is the U.S. so forthright this time in blaming Pakistan? Could it be they want India to go after Pakistan? Do they want an excuse to go after Pakistan themselves? Do they expect Israel to go after Pakistan? These are all interesting conjectures and/or conspiracy theories. I still tend to believe it was extremist elements within Pakistani Army and ISI and possibly Dawwod Ibrahim, who pulled it off.
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I'm reading the paper dodo posted, and it's well-written, but what seems to be weak and/or missing is motive. Or at least, a motive sufficient in order to move people to kill hundreds and thousands of innocent bystanders, sometimes even by those willing to kill themselves in the process. If someone is willing to kill themselves in the process of killing others, then obviously, greed/territorial control is not what's motivating them.
As to the argument that elements within Pakistan are behind the Mumbai attack, we need to keep in mind several points: 1) India and Pakistan hate each other and have since Pakistan's birth; 2) Pakistan is a country of 200+ million people, mostly muslim, and the idea that there are those who live in this country located in probably the roughest neighborhood on Earth who favor literally cut throat tactics should be probably less of a surprise then it would be if I said there are individuals in Africa or Europe who favor cut throat tactics as a means of advancing their interests. I'll have more comments later.
EDIT - oh, and 3) Kashmir is an extremely important region strategically for both countries, and conflict over its disputed borders will continue to fuel hostilities that spill over.
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This slow turnabout (360 on terms of popular American terminology) is now complete. The Secretary of State made a statement, "We have irrefutable evidence that Pakistani's are involved". I almost fell of my chair. Americans, for the first time, were blaming Pakistan in an act of terrorism that took lace in India. Does that switch mean that the U.S. needs an excuse to get into Pakistan as it did to enter Grenada, Panama, and Iraq? Or is it because the U.S. Citizens were killed? .
I am also impressed by the admission, but it is still hot air untill some actions are taken. I'm thinking its because US citizens were killed.
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Reading about this purported plan to balkanize Pakistan so as to neuter it, even if one can bridge the disbelief gap, does anyone really believe that other Islamic states are just going to sit back and watch that happen? Or that China will, with which Pakistan has a mutual defense pact?
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What about the Indian version of the CIA clipping the finicial backers of these lunes? Does India have such an agency?
If clipping their financial wings was as easy as telling an agency to pick up the phone and freeze their bank accounts, don't you think that would have happened already? Yes, India has an intelligence agency.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvalancheZ71
What about the Indian version of the CIA clipping the finicial backers of these lunes? Does India have such an agency?
Indian intelligence agency is called RAW-Research and Analysis Wing. The resources available to RAW are primitive compared to the CIA. There is no comparison between RAW and CIA. If CIA has been unable to clip these "lunes" I doubt RAW has any chance of success in doing that.
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Pakistan's president Asif Ali Zardari (Benazir Bhutto's husband) has a good op-ed in the NY Times today:
Quote:
THE recent death and destruction in Mumbai, India, brought to my mind the death and destruction in Karachi on Oct. 18, 2007, when terrorists attacked a festive homecoming rally for my wife, Benazir Bhutto. Nearly 150 Pakistanis were killed and more than 450 were injured. The terrorist attacks in Mumbai may be a news story for most of the world. For me it is a painful reality of shared experience. Having seen my wife escape death by a hairbreadth on that day in Karachi, I lost her in a second, unfortunately successful, attempt two months later.
The Mumbai attacks were directed not only at India but also at Pakistan’s new democratic government and the peace process with India that we have initiated. Supporters of authoritarianism in Pakistan and non-state actors with a vested interest in perpetuating conflict do not want change in Pakistan to take root...
Nearly 2,000 Pakistanis have lost their lives to terrorism in this year alone, including 1,400 civilians and 600 security personnel ranging in rank from ordinary soldier to three-star general. There have been more than 600 terrorism-related incidents in Pakistan this year. The terrorists have been set back by our aggressive war against them in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas and the Pashtun-majority areas bordering Afghanistan. Six hundred militants have been killed in recent attacks, hundreds by Pakistani F-16 jet strikes in the last two months...
For India, Pakistan and the United States, the best response to the Mumbai carnage is to coordinate in counteracting the scourge of terrorism. The world must act to strengthen Pakistan’s economy and democracy, help us build civil society and provide us with the law enforcement and counterterrorism capacities that will enable us to fight the terrorists effectively.
Benazir Bhutto once said that democracy is the best revenge against the abuses of dictatorship...
What other poster suggested what? This must be a so important a thread that people are drawn to it immediately upon joining FT. 
A case of multiple personality/identity? 
