I don't think anyone disagrees that the overall attacks are terrorism, Beavis. Targeting Chabad, however, is anti-semitism.
So what do you call the westerners who were targeted? Anti-what?
Or the Indians who were massacred at the railway station? Anti-what?
There is no doubt that Jewish people were sought out. But many others were sought out, and others were 'just' killed. Are their deaths any the less important because they weren't targeted, but were just in the wrong place at the wrong time?
I'm really sorry, but I find the concentration on the Jewish victims to the exclusion of the other victims by some posters on this thread offensive. People were killed. That's the important thing. Not how they can be defined And all those people, no matter how you chose to define them, have families who are ripped apart and devastated by their loss. To focus only on the Jews who were victims in this attack suggests that the other victims are not as important
What's the opposite of anti-semitic, where the only things which matter are Jewish? Because that POV is equally as bigoted as anti-semitism.
So what do you call the westerners who were targeted? Anti-what?
Or the Indians who were massacred at the railway station? Anti-what?
There is no doubt that Jewish people were sought out. But many others were sought out, and others were 'just' killed. Are their deaths any the less important because they weren't targeted, but were just in the wrong place at the wrong time?
I'm really sorry, but I find the concentration on the Jewish victims to the exclusion of the other victims by some posters on this thread offensive. People were killed. That's the important thing. Not how they can be defined And all those people, no matter how you chose to define them, have families who are ripped apart and devastated by their loss. To focus only on the Jews who were victims in this attack suggests that the other victims are not as important
What's the opposite of anti-semitic, where the only things which matter are Jewish? Because that POV is equally as bigoted as anti-semitism.
Jenbel, you miss the point completely. If the Jews who were killed in Mumbai had simply been among all the others, without regard to their religion, they would not be discussed here.
That, however, was not the case. When Pakistani murderers were busy killing as many Hindus as they could over, presumably, a long standing dispute about Kashmir they diverted part of their limited manpower to go and kill Jews specifically.
Jews -- not just Israelis -- are targets throughout the world. They have been killed in a bombing of a Jewish Community Center in Argentina. They have had their synagogue attacked in Turkey. In the peaceful little town of Lugano in Switzerland a store was firebombed for no other reason then its owners were Orthodox Jews.
It was a wheelchair-bound American Jew who was killed on the Archille Lauro and thrown into the sea. When hijackers took over an Air France plane and diverted it to Entebbe, they allowed all the passengers to leave except those with Israeli passports or Jewish names.
So Mumbai was not an isolated incident -- it is part of an ongoing pattern.
And, of course, here on Omni we have someone who is screaming "racism" on one thread where three men were taken off a flight and on this thread throwing mud on these murdered Jews by saying, without giving any proof, that the Chabad House was engaged in illegal activities.
Bigotry, you see, is not the sole province of white Anglo Saxon Protestants.
Of course there is a an Israeli/Jewish angle to this. But that is only one angle. The whole attack wasn't just designed to kill Jews. One has to be very careful before one jumps to conclusions. Just because people of certain religion are killed are killed, it does not mean the entire operation was targeted to get them
Quote:
Originally Posted by UA Fan
my apologies, guess I didn't read the pro-jewish posts carefully enough.
UA Fan -- As Dovster noted (around post #359 or so, IIRC), nobody said what Yaatri is claiming. That's just his straw-man to knock down.
What I said, and I repeat, is that the targetting of Nariman House was anti-semitism.
The ravings of the whacko blogger he cites are not generally considered reliable proof. (Examples from that site: Their purpose is "to expose America's fraudulent monetary system and the evil of charging interest on money loaned"; other posts on his "Great Quotes" page cite Mein Kampf, Cong. Paul Findley, in 1992, alleging Mossad links to the JFK assassination, etc.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvalancheZ71
Is there a large Jewish community in India?
Estimates range from 5,000 - 7,500 people. On a population of 1.2 billion, that's 4%-6% of 1% of 1% (0.0004% - 0.0006%, I believe). Or, the equivalent of 1,250-1,875 people in the USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenbel
I'm really sorry, but I find the concentration on the Jewish victims to the exclusion of the other victims by some posters on this thread offensive. People were killed.
To focus only on the Jews who were victims in this attack suggests that the other victims are not as important
What's the opposite of anti-semitic, where the only things which matter are Jewish? Because that POV is equally as bigoted as anti-semitism.
Jenbel -- if someone specifically targets a women's center, as part of something larger, it's anti-female; don't women tend to get more concerned by that? Here, there are credible reports that the terrorists specifically sought out Americans & Brits at the Taj & Oberoi; isn't that part of what's getting so much concern from US & UK media?
When people feel more directly targetted, they react more emphatically. As I said on an earlier post, when someone goes looking to kill Jews, they are looking to kill me & mine. I'm more at risk. (Just the same way that I'd have been more at risk as an American here, were I at the hotels.) Why is it wrong to react more strongly when you are threatened than when you aren't?
So what do you call the westerners who were targeted? Anti-what?
Or the Indians who were massacred at the railway station? Anti-what?
There is no doubt that Jewish people were sought out. But many others were sought out, and others were 'just' killed. Are their deaths any the less important because they weren't targeted, but were just in the wrong place at the wrong time?
I'm really sorry, but I find the concentration on the Jewish victims to the exclusion of the other victims by some posters on this thread offensive. People were killed. That's the important thing. Not how they can be defined And all those people, no matter how you chose to define them, have families who are ripped apart and devastated by their loss. To focus only on the Jews who were victims in this attack suggests that the other victims are not as important
Thank you Jenbel. I find it inexplicable that when scores belonging to various religions have been murdered, some people choose to focus exclusively on a those of their own religion. It's just so sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenbel
What's the opposite of anti-semitic, where the only things which matter are Jewish? Because that POV is equally as bigoted as anti-semitism.
That's certainly not an unreasonable conclusion.
__________________
Those who sacrifice liberty of some to purchase a little temporary safety, will have neither liberty nor safety.
Wow. I try to get some work done and this thread goes straight to hell.
Of course those individuals were targeted because they were Jews. And of course it happens in other cases. I didn't read Jenbels post to say otherwise. Even the World Trade Center attacks were somewhat guided by anti semitism, at least according to some of the attackers. But that doesn't mean that that was more than one facet of a broader more complex attack. These things aren't binary. I mean is there any disgreement with that? I've lost track of even what the thread was about at this point.
__________________
"Nobody loves me but my mother, and she could be jivin too"
Jenbel, you miss the point completely. If the Jews who were killed in Mumbai had simply been among all the others, without regard to their religion, they would not be discussed here.
That, however, was not the case. When Pakistani murderers were busy killing as many Hindus as they could over, presumably, a long standing dispute about Kashmir they diverted part of their limited manpower to go and kill Jews specifically.
Jews -- not just Israelis -- are targets throughout the world. They have been killed in a bombing of a Jewish Community Center in Argentina. They have had their synagogue attacked in Turkey. In the peaceful little town of Lugano in Switzerland a store was firebombed for no other reason then its owners were Orthodox Jews.
It was a wheelchair-bound American Jew who was killed on the Archille Lauro and thrown into the sea. When hijackers took over an Air France plane and diverted it to Entebbe, they allowed all the passengers to leave except those with Israeli passports or Jewish names.
So Mumbai was not an isolated incident -- it is part of an ongoing pattern.
Just few posts ago you pointed to an on going pattern of Killing of Jews/Israelis by some Islamic extremists. But some seem to insist that everyone else who was killed there is less important than the Jewish victims! I, on the other hand, more than once, urged not to go astray from the main issue, which is terrorism, by focusing on ethncity or the religion of some of the victims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dovster
And, of course, here on Omni we have someone who is screaming "racism" on one thread where three men were taken off a flight and on this thread throwing mud on these murdered Jews by saying, without giving any proof, that the Chabad House was engaged in illegal activities.
Bigotry, you see, is not the sole province of white Anglo Saxon Protestants.
]
One expects better behaviour from an airline pilot than terrorists. I think even you can understand that. If not, I am sorry.
Who has thrown mud on the Jewish victims? Would you like to point out? No one has said bigotry is not the sole province of white Anglo Saxon Protestants. Obviously there are others.
__________________
Those who sacrifice liberty of some to purchase a little temporary safety, will have neither liberty nor safety.
Who has thrown mud on the Jewish victims? Would you like to point out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaatri
What happened to those who were hunf up on the Jewish angle? It was bold of you to point out what you did. You may have to be watchful now. Just because Chabad house might have been involved in illegal activities, murder of its occupants was still deplorable.
Yes, it means that you found some unproven filth on the internet and rushed to post it here to dirty the names of the Jews who were killed.
That's called unsubstantiated allegation.
It's just pathetic.
First of all, everything you agree with is not gold and everything you disagree with is not filth.
Secondly, I do nob recall posting anything that could be called filth.
Thirdly, you please point where I have posted the filth you are talking about.
Fourthly, if you cannot find that filth. I expect an apology from you.
__________________
Those who sacrifice liberty of some to purchase a little temporary safety, will have neither liberty nor safety.
That's called unsubstantiated allegation.
It's just pathetic.
First of all, everything you agree with is not gold and everything you disagree with is not filth.
Secondly, I do nob recall posting anything that could be called filth.
Thirdly, you please point where I have posted the filth you are talking about.
Fourthly, if you cannot find that filth. I expect an apology from you.
Yes, I can see where you feel that saying that an institution run by a Jewish religious organization is involved in criminal activities is not filth.
That says a lot about you.
You want an apology? Okay, here it is: I am very sorry that you are what you are.
The residents of the Chabad House were targeted and murdered. Your evenhanded poster suggests they were targeted not over their religion, but because they were engaged in criminal activity... which has been suggested by no one with a shred of credibility.
It isn't a matter of disagreement... it's a matter of hate via slimy innuendo.
That's the rational side you are defending.
With all due respect, get off your high horse .
1. Why do you think that it is ONLY the prerogative of the Western countries or certain religion(s) or ethnic group(s) to be angry at and mourn the deaths of innocent people caught in the web of political jingoism (defined as :Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism); Is it because the other countries have only plebs?
2.How do you think the brown African person feel when this tragedy hits close to home ?
Well I am this person -
3. Who gives you the right to call people names on your first day of posting or judge me for that matter when I am angry that some govts/spooks playing double-crossed games / gangs treat innocent people like pawns for political gains or power?
4. How dare you label me anti-Semite when you don't know anything about me or what my grand-parents did for the boat load of the European Jews whom the British authority did not allow to enter Palestine?
For some it is so convenient to take the easy way out through mere accusations. So Jejune
You can find as many scapegoats as you like, but we cannot run away from that beast: Human nature - or the foreign policy of some so-called democracies, that is bloody and brutal, and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. History has proven it and is there to prove it in the coming yrs. I mentioned something to that effect here
And all those people, no matter how you chose to define them, have families who are ripped apart and devastated by their loss. To focus only on the Jews who were victims in this attack suggests that the other victims are not as important 
