Programs: AA EXP/2MM, QF WP, DL PM, US Conscientious Objector, TED Boycotter, SPG PLT, TSA Disparager Diamond
Posts: 37,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by anaggie
I have a small suggestion to the leaders of the world:
If terrorism is not condoned by any country, then that country should let the affected countrys' commandos/seals come in and take out the terrorist group without any involvement or help for the harboring country and no repurcussions against that country. Of course, all civilian casualities must be avoided but if the civilians are helping then, then go in, finish it up and let GOD sort them out.
For example:
India shold now have permission from Pakistan to enter their borders and head to the terrorist camp/headquarter and act with extreme prejudice.
Now the issue that comes into play is that terrorists will change their headquarters to major city centers. At that point, the citizens will fight back against it if THEY ARE REALLY AGAINST TERRORISM.
Most normal/good citizens people are not willing to put up with this Sh** in their backyard.
Pakistan should really do that themselves, if there is conclusive proof of this activity in Pakistan.
__________________
You cannot uphold American ideology with un-American actions. It's time for change.
Programs: Chairman MC, HH Gold, AA GOLD, PC RA, TAJ Innercircle Silver
Posts: 2,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMSN
You have a totally unrealistic view of countries and national pride. No country would willingly allow that. This applies also to your belief that invading Pakistan will do anything but harm. Unrestrained anger is not a good basis for foreign policy.
Oh, and Yaatri is sane, and not a bigot. That's why he doesn't foam at the mouth like you'd prefer.
If that country does not condone terrorism, they would not not allow it on their soil.
Pakistan says they DO NOT CONDONE terrorism but many of the attacks are Pakistan based. And like Spiff says in the earlier spot, Pakistan should do this themselves but will not since they condon terrorism.
I am saying that this be done with all nations agreeing with each other, not just the more powerful nation forcing their hand over the weaker one. I am sure govts can figure this out and I sure it is monetary. Sometimes one must swallow their pride if they want to get ahead.
As per Yaatri, it was a question directed at him and not you.
Also, have YOU ever been to Pakistan or even to India for that matter? Can you relate as a Hindu to Pakistan?
But you feel free to mock me because I have strong feelings for something you will NEVER EVER understand. What a great person you are !!!
__________________ STRANGE is a necessary evil required to refresh and renew the NORMAL.
Ireland did not condone terrorism, but many of the attacks on the UK were conjugated by people based in Eire.
Does that mean that the UK should have gone to war with Eire? I really don't think that would have helped the situation.
Everything I've read suggests that Pakistan remains a strongly tribal country, which the government has a tenuous - non existent control of. Indeed, this is the very argument I've seen argued on here as to why the US should commit acts of war on Pakistan - they aren't really acts of war, it's taking out factions that the government cannot control.
Why suddenly are you trying to hold their government to account when it is unlikely that this had any government blessing or indeed knowledge? To me, you sound like a nationalistic warmonger, willing to ask thousands of your countrymen to risk their lives (at no risk to your own of course) on something where we don't even know who is responsible for the attack.
I refer you to my earlier question in this thread - how would going to war with Pakistan safeguard the lives of Indian nationals? Do you think more people or fewer would be killed in an all out war, versus ongoing terrorist attacks? How do you expect to subjugate and control a country which is based around a tribal system in mountainous terrain? I refer you to efforts in Afghanistan, dating back over 100 years, for help in answering.
Also, have YOU ever been to Pakistan or even to India for that matter? Can you relate as a Hindu to Pakistan?
But you feel free to mock me because I have strong feelings for something you will NEVER EVER understand. What a great person you are !!!
If your feelings are as strong as you profess, why are you here and not there?
Your question is especially ironic specially since you have no more real knowledge of India than most here, except what you seem to have gained from your militant Hindu relatives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anaggie
I left India when I was 9 and have no recollection about Indian history. I have no idea who he is.
I love all the fighting words from the armchair warriors. Y'all need to grow up. You break it, you own it.
Do you want India be stuck in Pakistan and inherit all its social and economic problems, just as the US is now stuck in Iraq?
So what exactly is your solution? What if this attack met the rumored goals of 5,000 dead? You would sit in your armchair and preach peace? Why does the US have the right to go into Afghanistan?
In this case it would be Pakistan breaks itself and sorts itself. We could invade take back PoK destroy the camps and its nukes/army/airforce and navy and then retreat. Anytime they start building an army bomb 'em. Basically do what the US did to Japan. Offer a peace treaty in which Pak accepts that Kashmir is part of India and relinquish its army except police/paramilitary.
__________________
There is another FTer called UAfan. In my name there is a space between "UA" and "Fan".
Ireland did not condone terrorism, but many of the attacks on the UK were conjugated by people based in Eire.
Does that mean that the UK should have gone to war with Eire? I really don't think that would have helped the situation. .
This is a diff situation here. Ireland officially accepted N. Ire as part of the UK and did more to prevent terrorism. Pak has never accepted Kashmir as part of India and waged three wars and indirectly admitted it supported terrorism (otherwise why would Musahrraf publicly denounce terrorism on jan 12, 2002 and pledge to eradicate it?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenbel
Everything I've read suggests that Pakistan remains a strongly tribal country, which the government has a tenuous - non existent control of. Indeed, this is the very argument I've seen argued on here as to why the US should commit acts of war on Pakistan - they aren't really acts of war, it's taking out factions that the government cannot control.
Why suddenly are you trying to hold their government to account when it is unlikely that this had any government blessing or indeed knowledge? To me, you sound like a nationalistic warmonger, willing to ask thousands of your countrymen to risk their lives (at no risk to your own of course) on something where we don't even know who is responsible for the attack. .
Because its their house and their job to set it on order. if they don't other can "help" set it right. When a team loses the captain is first to go, he/she cannot keep making excuses that the members are not good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenbel
I refer you to my earlier question in this thread - how would going to war with Pakistan safeguard the lives of Indian nationals? Do you think more people or fewer would be killed in an all out war, versus ongoing terrorist attacks? How do you expect to subjugate and control a country which is based around a tribal system in mountainous terrain? I refer you to efforts in Afghanistan, dating back over 100 years, for help in answering.
Pak makes tall claims abt how difficult it is, the US seems to have much better control of the mountains in afghansitan where they are a completely alien army. India now has established tight control of the mountains in Kashmir. Pak is just spinning tall stories to waste time just so that the US will soon forget about Bin Laden.
If you wish to bring into discussion the Soviet nightmare in Afghanistan, remember who funded and armed the "resistance".
We don't have to go to the mountains. Take back PoK, destroy the army and nukes and retreat. Let them sort the mess.
__________________
There is another FTer called UAfan. In my name there is a space between "UA" and "Fan".
So what exactly is your solution? What if this attack met the rumored goals of 5,000 dead? You would sit in your armchair and preach peace? Why does the US have the right to go into Afghanistan?
In this case it would be Pakistan breaks itself and sorts itself. We could invade take back PoK destroy the camps and its nukes/army/airforce and navy and then retreat. Anytime they start building an army bomb 'em. Basically do what the US did to Japan. Offer a peace treaty in which Pak accepts that Kashmir is part of India and relinquish its army except police/paramilitary.
I am not preaching peace. I am preaching restraint and thoughtful consideration. Certainly I don't have a solution. But I do know that the obvious and emotional reaction is not usually the best one.
There are people on the ground there, and an elected government that surely has more and better information than we do here. Let them determine the appropriate response.
Programs: Chairman MC, HH Gold, AA GOLD, PC RA, TAJ Innercircle Silver
Posts: 2,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMSN
I understand bigotry perfectly. I also understand, but do not condone, that people sometimes let their emotions overcome their reason.
so, what would you do if someone came into your house, raped you daughter and killed you wife?
Would you:
1) wait for justice which might or might not happen and it may take years (reason)
2) Hunt the person down and kill him (emotion)
Why did the US go into Afghanistan after 9/11? To hit back and hit back hard and show that we do not condone these act of terrorism on OUR soil. Why is it ok for us to do it but no one else?
That is what I am preaching that India does to Pakistan.
__________________ STRANGE is a necessary evil required to refresh and renew the NORMAL.
...Pak makes tall claims abt how difficult it is, the US seems to have much better control of the mountains in afghansitan where they are a completely alien army. India now has established tight control of the mountains in Kashmir. Pak is just spinning tall stories to waste time just so that the US will soon forget about Bin Laden.
We don't have to go to the mountains. Take back PoK, destroy the army and nukes and retreat. Let them sort the mess.
The coalition forces in Afghanistan are under attack almost daily. Why do you think the forces there have control? They quite obviously do not.
How is India supposed to destroy Pakistan's army and nukes? I'm sure Pakistan would, just as India would, use those nukes if a total loss is imminent. Then no one would win. War is a stupid idea, as shown by the results of earlier conflicts there. Was anything ever solved? Not on your life.
If India were to try to destroy Pakistan, I would guess that the US would tell them very firmly "no". As would China. Yours is a violent, simplistic and quite sick pipe dream.
Programs: Chairman MC, HH Gold, AA GOLD, PC RA, TAJ Innercircle Silver
Posts: 2,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandhi90s
If your feelings are as strong as you profess, why are you here and not there?
Your question is especially ironic specially since you have no more real knowledge of India than most here, except what you seem to have gained from your militant Hindu relatives.
I am here because I have lived more than 20yrs of my life here, my family is here and my business is HERE. I am an AMERICAN CITIZEN. I love this country and no ill feelings towards it, so why should I leave? You usually that line to people who are consistently criticizing their country and always singing praise for their home country.
My CULTURE is Indian and thereby a connection still exists to that land. Which you would not understand as a American Born Desi. You will never get it so just forget it.
I speak from personal experience and not from GOOGLE from which you get all your info especially with all your attached links.
I have an idea....why don't you get off your high horse armchair, go to India and actually live there for 5 yrs and then we can talk?
__________________ STRANGE is a necessary evil required to refresh and renew the NORMAL.
so, what would you do if someone came into your house, raped you daughter and killed you wife?
Would you:
1) wait for justice which might or might not happen and it may take years (reason)
2) Hunt the person down and kill him (emotion)
Why did the US go into Afghanistan after 9/11? To hit back and hit back hard and show that we do not condone these act of terrorism on OUR soil. Why is it ok for us to do it but no one else?
That is what I am preaching that India does to Pakistan.
If you chose 2), you'd likely spend most of your life in jail, if you even succeeded, which is unlikely unless you knew who the perpetrator was. You watch too many action movies if you think that's a viable option.
The coalition went into Afghanistan to remove a rogue government that was very clearly and openly giving support to terrorists, among other crimes. Note also that they were given a chance to offer up Bin Laden before we attacked. The situation in Pakistan is far muddier. I doubt the central government could root out the tribal areas no matter how hard they tried.
You can preach all you want, but your solution is no solution and is unrealistic, knee-jerk, chest-thumping inanity.
Not in TEXAS. I don't know about where you live but in this GREAT state you have a good shot of walking especially if you kill the guy in the act.
Not too many action movies my friend, but I have friends in the DA's office.
You do realize that you just changed the argument from revenge to self-defense, don't you? You were originally talking about hunting someone down and killing them, and even in Texas you won't get away with that.
But in any event, it appears you are simply too emotional to argue reasonably, so I'm out. No point.
