Egypt guilty of French-Style, Anti-Muslim Discrimination?
Quote:
Rokaya Mohamed, an elementary school teacher, would rather die than take off her face veil, or niqab, thrusting her to the forefront of a battle by government-backed clerics to limit Islamism in Egypt.
Egypt's state-run religious establishment wants teachers like Mohamed to remove their veils in front of female students, sparking a backlash by Islamists who say women should be able to choose to cover their faces in line with their Islamic faith.
...
The spread of the niqab, associated with the strictest interpretations of Islam, is a potent reminder to the government of the political threat posed by any Islamist resurgence emanating from the Gulf, where many young Egyptians go to work.
Controversy over the niqab flared last month after the state-appointed head of Egypt's al-Azhar mosque asked a young student to remove her face veil during a visit to her school.
...
"(Extremism) has been increasing in Egyptian society for the past 30 years and therefore Egyptians are accepting more extremism and becoming more closed off," she said.
Egypt, unlike other Muslim states Saudi Arabia and Iran, does not require women to cover their heads with a scarf. But the millions of Egyptians who have lived or worked in Gulf states such as Saudi Arabia are believed to be a source for the spread of Wahhabi ideology.
This is a tricky one. On the one hand, the women who wear the Niqab do so out of a very real desire to live according to their religious interpretations. On the other hand, wearing a Niqab is alien to most Muslims in the world and therefore it is not considered an essential article of faith. However, I don't think it's fair to equate wearing it as a political statement or with "Islamism".
So, comparing Egypt banning the Niqab is different I think to say Turkey or France banning headscarves in official institutions. Headscarves are worn by many Muslim women in public, again out of a desire to live according to their faith. However, when compared to the Niqab, there is much greater acceptance of the headscarf.
For the record, I don't agree with any of the above bans, but then again I don't believe wearing a headscarf or a Niqab in public should be a legal or social requirement either.
This is a tricky one. On the one hand, the women who wear the Niqab do so out of a very real desire to live according to their religious interpretations. On the other hand, wearing a Niqab is alien to most Muslims in the world and therefore it is not considered an essential article of faith. However, I don't think it's fair to equate wearing it as a political statement or with "Islamism".
So, comparing Egypt banning the Niqab is different I think to say Turkey or France banning headscarves in official institutions. Headscarves are worn by many Muslim women in public, again out of a desire to live according to their faith. However, when compared to the Niqab, there is much greater acceptance of the headscarf.
For the record, I don't agree with any of the above bans, but then again I don't believe wearing a headscarf or a Niqab in public should be a legal or social requirement either.
Do you think that all countries, Islamic, nominally Muslim, nominally Christian, Jewish and secular should have the same rules respecting the rights of women to wear niqab in public?
Do you believe that a woman completely covered in a niqab / full burka would make an effective school teacher in public schools? An effective social worker dealing with the general public?
Are the obvious security and public order issues associated with full body and face coverings subsidiary to the rights of religious expression?
If gang members were to start to wear garb in public covering everything but the slits of their eyes do you think that they should have the same protections as women wearing a niqab for self-professed religious reasons?
Do you think that all countries, Islamic, nominally Muslim, nominally Christian, Jewish and secular should have the same rules respecting the rights of women to wear niqab in public?
Every country has it's own cultural standards. It would be ideal if people in all countries could observe what they felt are their religious beliefs without being told what they could or couldn't wear. OTOH, it would be better if people could adapt their beliefs to as many of the norms of the country they are visiting or residing in as they possibly could.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM
Do you believe that a woman completely covered in a niqab / full burka would make an effective school teacher in public schools? An effective social worker dealing with the general public?
Not really. I would challenge a lady who feels she needs to wear a niqab in front of children to explain why modesty in front of children is required of her. Personally, I do not like the niqab. However, having interacted with women in niqab in Saudi Arabia, the UAE, UK and the USA in professional, security and social circumstances, I am somewhat sensitized to it. I wouldn't have a problem conducting professional transactions with a lady in a niqab. However, if it is not the cultural norm of ones co-workers, I can see that it could impact the effectiveness of the individual and therefore impact their workplace adversely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM
Are the obvious security and public order issues associated with full body and face coverings subsidiary to the rights of religious expression?
With all respect to you, KLMID-LLKLM, I think when people bring up security/public order issues associated with a woman wearing a niqab, security itself is not their real concern. If someone decides to rob a jewelry store wearing a niqab (I believe it has happened before), it's not the fault of women who wear the niqab. It's analogous to a criminal wearing hospital scrubs or a police uniform to get through security arrangements set up at hospitals and kidnap a baby (has also happened). I don't think penalizing a woman who wears a niqab for her personal beliefs reduces crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM
If gang members were to start to wear garb in public covering everything but the slits of their eyes do you think that they should have the same protections as women wearing a niqab for self-professed religious reasons?
Again, I think such an argument is no reason to penalize a lady who wishes to wear a niqab in public.
What do you think of people wearing face coverings to shield their faces from the icy cold wind on a cold winter day?
I am for it. Frostbite is dangerous and insidious and can lead to permanent disfiguration.
However, I think it would be weird if they kept the mask on the rest of the day at the office. I would be more understanding if they were from Our Lady of the Wicked Moguls Church that believed that their faith required them to stay the whole day in full ski mask, unless partaking of the holy ritual of apres ski schnaps, but I believe it would disqualify them for a number of public and customer service functions.
I am for it. Frostbite is dangerous and insidious and can lead to permanent disfiguration.
However, I think it would be weird if they kept the mask on the rest of the day at the office. I would be more understanding if they were from Our Lady of the Wicked Moguls Church that believed that their faith required them to stay the whole day in full ski mask, unless partaking of the holy ritual of apres ski schnaps, but I believe it would disqualify them for a number of public and customer service functions.
Plenty of public and customer service jobs involve being outside or otherwise exposed to the elements. Examples include infrastructure maintenance workers, firefighters / rescue workers, police officers, paramedics, those assisting customers at ski lifts, train stations, sports stadiums, etc..
Plenty of public and customer service jobs involve being outside or otherwise exposed to the elements. Examples include infrastructure maintenance workers, firefighters / rescue workers, police officers, paramedics, those assisting customers at ski lifts, train stations, sports stadiums, etc..
And those are all very logical specific circumstances for very logical precautions to be taken based on very rational decision making appropriate to time, place and conditon and generally accepted custom.
What exactly does that have to do with niqab fatwas or gangs wearing full body garb 24/7?
Are you saying that women in burkas would be better maintenance workers, firefighters / rescue workers, police officers, paramedics, those assisting customers at ski lifts, train stations, sports stadiums, etc.?
