Yes, I do believe the IDF, or any army, should fire upon rock throwers. The answer is contained in my previous post, which is that weapons, be they mechanical, chemical, or organic, are simply that - weapons. There is this idea that Luddites are the only noble warriors. Murder is murder, whether it is by bullet, axe or even rock.
It is defined by intent, not implement. (I like that one!)
Armies were created to protect ones own people, the concept of protecting your enemies people is still first catching on in the history of mankind.
So, what level of response would you advocate for a group of Jewish rock throwers? Would it involve the use of bullets that are banned elsewhere in the world, as Israel has used against Palestinian children throwing stones? Would it involve tear gas? Would it involve charging toward them in armored vehicles and running them over?
If Jewish stone throwers ran to their homes and the military went looking for them but didn't know which home they had hidden in, would you advocate that tanks and bulldozers move in to destroy the homes suspected of harboring them? Or, do you think dropping bombs banned by other countries from F-16's would be OK to use against Jewish stone throwers?
[Note to Hasbara lobby: By reading this post you implicitly agree that you want the Palestinians destroyed. By responding to it at all, you prove yourself to be not interested in peace]
So, what level of response would you advocate for a group of Jewish rock throwers? Would it involve the use of bullets that are banned elsewhere in the world, as Israel has used against Palestinian children throwing stones? Would it involve tear gas? Would it involve charging toward them in armored vehicles and running them over?
If Jewish stone throwers ran to their homes and the military went looking for them but didn't know which home they had hidden in, would you advocate that tanks and bulldozers move in to destroy the homes suspected of harboring them? Or, do you think dropping bombs banned by other countries from F-16's would be OK to use against Jewish stone throwers?
[Note to Hasbara lobby: By reading this post you implicitly agree that you want the Palestinians destroyed. By responding to it at all, you prove yourself to be not interested in peace]
It's a campaign of punishment and intimidation - so don't question it?
This "anti-Israel" stigma is complete B.S., employed for the sole purpose of stifling debate. Opposition to Israel's policies DOES NOT amount to opposition to the very existence of Israel or Israelis.
They are using the mantra/label "you are anti-Israel" to try to shut up educated people who question the actions of the Israeli politicos and military for the same reason the Neocon hawks called opponents of the Iraq war "anti-American": they have run out of arguments.
"You are either with us or against us " so enquiring minds questioning the policies and actions of the Israeli authorities are unacceptable. Period.
This article reflects the concerns of the enlightened Israelis about the loss of support in the West, historically enjoyed by Israel and that's why we are experiencing the uproar and the labeling from the nationalists ( Note : even "J" street has been called "anti-Israel" - makes one wonder): Even those who remain, except for the usual mouthpieces, find it difficult to accept as legitimate the huge gap between the capabilities of the two sides. Most cannot understand the clear conscience of “the only democracy in the Middle East,” which does not hesitate to hold an entire people under occupation and siege, and at the same time punctiliously presents itself as always, in any situation, as the innocent victim of the hostile gentiles.
That is not the same as saying that Israel has concentration camps. Simile compares two things which have similarities.
I'd be willing to accept I'm wrong if you can point out where someone has said that Israel actually has concentration camps?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh
In doing so, you accept that the area which was partitioned was solely the area comprising modern day Israel and the Occupied Territories, including Besieged Gaza, the West Bank and all land stolen for Israeli settlements, concentration camps and apartheid structures.
(Emphasis added to make it easier for Jenbel to accept that she is wrong).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenbel
Ok, as I said, I think that would be over the top, but that's your position and at least its logically consistent.
When do you think that the IDF will start firing on Jewish Israelis to protect car drivers? Has it ever actually done so? In some of the areas where I saw this happen, there are army bases nearby...
THere are numerous lawsuits, demonstrations, and even riots by the extreme orthodox and settler communities almost weekly in Israel that the IDF is "treating them like Arabs".
In others words, in my opinion, the IDF is doing exactly what it should be doing. The statement has an inherrent truth that the IDF is "color blind" and in a very real way I am proud that we are treating the two groups the same when they commit similar acts.
__________________
All the war-propaganda, all the screaming & lies & hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.-George Orwell
(Emphasis added to make it easier for Jenbel to accept that she is wrong).
Fair enough. I was mistaken.
But at least I'm big enough to admit when I am wrong, amn't I Dovster? I'm sure you'd agree with me that it's something we should all be able to do when we make a mistake?
(Emphasis added to make it easier for Jenbel to accept that she is wrong).
Since you like to parse words without referencing their context...
Besieged Gaza - Do you claim Gaza is not in a state of siege? That Israel does not have a strangle-hold on the entire territory, giving it the feel of a giant concentration camp? Is there a shred of evidence to the contrary?
West Bank - Ditto.
land stolen for Israeli settlements - Do you claim that land on which settlements is built is Israeli land? The world community considers it stolen land, and the Palestinians, who legally own this land consider those living on it anything more than common thieves.
concentration camps - see note on beseiged Gaza. See
apartheid structures - Do you see the wall, illegally built on the 5 or 6% of land that Palestinians are allowed to live on today as anything other than an apartheid structure? It keeps the Palestinians nicely out of sight of the thieves living on land belonging to the Palestinians.
To quote Mel Brooks in The Producers... [Just replace the country names with areas stolen by Israel]
"I don't want war! All I want is peace...peace...peace...!
A little piece of Poland,
A little piece of France,
A little piece of Austria
And Hungary, perchance!
A little slice of Turkey
And all that that entails,
And then a bit of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales!"
THere are numerous lawsuits, demonstrations, and even riots by the extreme orthodox and settler communities almost weekly in Israel that the IDF is "treating them like Arabs".
Since you like to parse words without referencing their context...
Your problem is not that I quote you out of context but rather that I quote you very much in context and give a full and clear understanding of what you were saying.
Of course, if anyone has any doubt he is free to click on the quote and see every word that you in the cited post.
Your problem is not that I quote you out of context but rather that I quote you very much in context and give a full and clear understanding of what you were saying.
Of course, if anyone has any doubt he is free to click on the quote and see every word that you in the cited post.
I'm afraid that is not the case. Besides, I am quite comfortable with the context of everything I have ever written here. Unfortunately, it appears that the Hasbara playbook recommends that when one is stumped regarding how best to defend accusations against Israel (especially observations on apartheid, the strangling of the Palestinian people, slow-cleansing, terror and Grand Theft Land (TM)),the correct modus operandi is to attempt to discredit the individual that would dare tell the truth. Even more unfortunately, you appear to be following said hasbara tactic very well, as evidenced by your responses to my posts. BTW, would you mind deleting your post in which you deliberately tie my good name with a desire to see Jews murdered. I;m requesting an apology too.
I've had rocks thrown at me by Jewish Israelis when driving on holy days in Israel.
But of course, you know that wasn't bensyd's point. He was discussing the disproportionate response by the IDF to rock throwing.
And if it's not disproportionate, do you think it would be appropriate for the IDF to shoot Jewish Israelis throwing rocks at cars on Yom Kippur? If not, please explain why. I personally do think it would be disproportionate - and I was the victim. Which means I think that shooting at anyone - regardless of race or religion, for throwing rocks is wrong.
The situation is different. The Palestinian rock-throwing is to get the guys to keep their heads down so they don't see the guys with the heavier weapons.
Because it's a lie, consistent with so many of your comments.
I'll bet that I have a lot more Muslim friends than you have Jewish friends.
I'm afraid the relevance of my statement may have been lost on you. No matter.
In response to your [question] LOL - you picked the wrong family to make that bet with...
I'll wager that I have had had more Jewish, Hindu, Christian and Atheist FRIENDS, as in people I work, play, study, argue and debate with, who have broken bread with my family in my home, and who I too have broken bread with in their homes.
Now, answer me one question. Can you count how many responses you have posted that didn't end in either an outright insult, a snarky comment or an untrue conclusion regarding the content of my post? Look at how unproductive (for Israel supporters) every single Israel thread is. t's not because of people who debate you, it's because of the responses they receive. Perhaps that is the aim of hasbara, perhaps it is just an inability to remain civil with your neighbours, perhaps it is something else that I or many others here do not understand, but in the end it is not productive for you or the cause you clearly espouse on-line.
