And you're the guy who can make a bad, bungled idea work?
I'd like to think I'd have a better chance at succeeding than Rob Borden.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMpls
Then CO's policy of awarding full qualifying miles for cheap fairs must be a great idea & financial success, because that is exactly what they do provided that you purchase the ticket on their web site. It has nothing to with high-value vs. low-value customers but with driving other aspects of their business in-house.
CO gives qualifying miles for fairs?
Most business customers purchase through other distribution systems. CO's policy may certainly encourage some of them to buy up to a higher fare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMpls
If there were, we'd be seeing it somewhere.
There isn't.
We are. Airtran, Alaska, CO and DL a large number of reasonably priced (relatively to competition) premium cabin fares in many markets. WN, with Business Select, does the same thing in coach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinian
Keeping the masses in the mile game is also what makes ff miles a valuable commodity for airlines to sell to banks and other businesses, which is a major profit center for them. I am sure they don't want to kill this golden goose, which is what a snobby program, like you suggest, would do.
No, it won't, since I haven't proposed changing how redeemable miles are earned.
Last edited by slippahs; Apr 20, 08 at 11:10 pm..
Reason: merging two consecutive posts
No, we are talking about the same people. My organization requires that all of our tickets be flexible, and scheduling often results in last minute purchase. My organization is not the only one in this country with similar travel policies.
Some of us get enough miles from business travel to earn gold, or for some platinum. Some have enough business travel only for silver. Many are a bit short of that. Many use personal travel to move up a tier or perhaps to qualify in the first place as silver in some cases. If there are any mileage runners in our organization, I have never heard anyone mention it when travel comes up in the social gatherings at our conferences. For many, it is the ability to use personal travel as a small part of what it takes to qualify as an elite that keeps them in the game. Take that away, the airline loses their loyalty for business travel as well. Then people will stop requesting NW or AA or whatever, and our travel office will just routinely book them on whoever is slightly cheaper at the moment or if all are the same, then on the travel office's preference which is UA.
Keeping the masses in the mile game is also what makes ff miles a valuable commodity for airlines to sell to banks and other businesses, which is a major profit center for them. I am sure they don't want to kill this golden goose, which is what a snobby program, like you suggest, would do.
It sounds like your organization is not very sophisticated at organizing travel well. Flexible tickets are rarely required for 80% of planned travel. Allowing employees to specify carriers is a way towards high costs and invites employees to play games with schedule among other games.
Unless you work for a tiny organization versus a larger one with operations in various countries, not negotiating corporate/organization rates with certain preferred carriers leaves a lot of money on the table.
From this and your earlier posts, it sounds like your company could be paying a lot less for travel and that the FF programs might be part of the problem they are paying too much. They should be turning their preference for UA or another carrier into a demand for better, cheaper negotiated discount service from one main carrier in return for awarding them most of their business.
Do you work for a government bureaucracy by any chance?
As I and other NW flyers have pointed out a number of times, the Middle Eastern oil sheiks are not going to reduce the price of oil just because DL takes over DL.
I'll write this really clearly for one last time: THE MERGER IS NOT ABOUT REDUCING THE PRICE OF OIL. IT IS ABOUT INCREASING REVENUE AND REDUCING COSTS SO THAT THE AIRLINE CAN BE PROFITABLE IN THE CURRENT BUSINESS/ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinian
The best way to reverse the price of oil is to get an administration in DC that goes back to the strong dollar policy of past years. Its the deliberate weak dollar policy that is largely responsible for today's oil prices. That's a political decision. There is nothing that the airlines can do about it.
So, the airlines are supposed to sit around, losing money, until politicians take action?
The companies have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to operate with a sustainable business plan now. Please, tell me how NW can operate successfully as an independent carrier today?
You're missing my main point: airlines should not give high value benefits to low yield passengers.
Is that (i.e., giving high value benefits to low yield passengers) what US airlines generally do? If so, why do they do that? Because they are generous charities?
The main point is that airlines don't give high value benefits to low yield passengers.
__________________
Delta SkyMiles, where management treats customers as if they are the enemy or sheep to be fleeced and it shows.
Is that (i.e., giving high value benefits to low yield passengers) what US airlines generally do? If so, why do they do that? Because they are generous charities?
The main point is that airlines don't give high value benefits to low yield passengers.
Your only correct if you can prove that every elite member - regardless of the type of fares purchased - is a high value customer. I would argue that there are many that may not be and should thus not automatically receive all of the benefits of elite membership.
No, it won't, since I haven't proposed changing how redeemable miles are earned.
Well your posts are defending almost anything Delta does, even when it runs contrary to aggregate consumer interest.
Also, a US airline would further commoditize its core business -- worsening its margins even more -- and cannibalize the earnings from selling miles to program partners if the flying public stops caring about that airline's frequent flyer program. And stopping to care about an airline's frequent flyer program is exactly what happens when earning from flights approaches zero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxf24
Your only correct if you can prove that every elite member - regardless of the type of fares purchased - is a high value customer.
Not true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxf24
I would argue that there are many that may not be and should thus not automatically receive all of the benefits of elite membership.
You can propose whatever you wish again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxf24
CO gives qualifying miles for fairs?
Should I point out your spelling & grammar errors above? "Your" and "you're" is the latest one. No big deal.
__________________
Delta SkyMiles, where management treats customers as if they are the enemy or sheep to be fleeced and it shows.
Last edited by slippahs; Apr 20, 08 at 11:10 pm..
Reason: merging three consecutive posts
Well your posts are defending almost anything Delta does, even when it runs contrary to aggregate consumer interest.
Also, a US airline would further commoditize its core business -- worsening its margins even more -- and cannibalize the earnings from selling miles to program partners if the flying public stops caring about that airline's frequent flyer program. And stopping to care about an airline's frequent flyer program is exactly what happens when earning from flights approaches zero.
What are you trying to say?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUWonder
Should I point out your spelling & grammar errors above? "Your" and "you're" is the latest one. No big deal.
My spelling and grammar errors are numerous enough to deserve their own forum. I was simply trying to lighten the mood a bit...
Last edited by slippahs; Apr 20, 08 at 11:11 pm..
Reason: merging two consecutive posts
And stopping to care about an airline's frequent flyer program is exactly what happens when earning from flights approaches zero.
Well apparently, 25% is not zero....
There is evidence to suggest that you can reduce mileage earning on the lowest fare classes to as low as 25% and still not only maintain interest in the FF program but actually grow it substantially while both staying very competitive with low fares, increasing overall average fares, charging surcharges on awards and conditioning those who value elite status to voluntarily purchase higher fare classes than those they have available to them.
Maybe it won't work in the US.
But one thing is for sure, what the airlines are now doing in the US doesn't work either and will result in their fiery fall to earth and finally being put out of their misery if it doesn't change soon.
My spelling and grammar errors are numerous enough to deserve their own forum. I was simply trying to lighten the mood a bit...
Continental gave miles at some state fairs, but that was many years ago since I've last seen that. Was Continental giving them because they were generous and wanted to be a charity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM
Well apparently, 25% is not zero....
There is evidence to suggest that you can reduce mileage earning on the lowest fare classes to as low as 25% and still not only maintain interest in the FF program but actually grow it substantially while both staying very competitive with low fares, increasing overall average fares, charging surcharges on awards and conditioning those who value elite status to voluntarily purchase higher fare classes than those they have available to them.
Maybe it won't work in the US.
But one thing is for sure, what the airlines are now doing in the US doesn't work either and will result in their fiery fall to earth and finally being put out of their misery if it doesn't change soon.
Do you recall what happened to the BAEC credit card after BA reduced earning from 100% to 25%. The benefits being used to market the BAEC credit cards became a lot more aggresive/generous after the decreased earnings came into effect.
US airlines have bigger problems than frequent flyer mile programs, but that won't stop them from going after high-hanging fruits too .... even before som of the more low-hanging fruit.
If the airlines are otherwise sinking rocks, stringing the two of them together won't stop them from sinking.
__________________
Delta SkyMiles, where management treats customers as if they are the enemy or sheep to be fleeced and it shows.
Last edited by slippahs; Apr 20, 08 at 11:11 pm..
Reason: merging two consecutive posts
"Reduce costs by first increasing costs". Doesn't sound like brilliant strategy at first blush, but that is exactly what a merger of this nature will do.
__________________
Delta SkyMiles, where management treats customers as if they are the enemy or sheep to be fleeced and it shows.
It worked for HP/US. So far, no one has provided anything beyond hyperbole why a DL/NW combination is doomed to fail.
It worked for HP-US? Really? I would say that it's too early to call that one.
AA-TWA was waved as a huge success for a while but it didn't take long for AA management to become quite gun-shy (and only reluctantly pushing ahead) on further M&A fronts.
__________________
Delta SkyMiles, where management treats customers as if they are the enemy or sheep to be fleeced and it shows.
