nwa/Delta MERGER: General Discussion

[bocastephen]

Originally Posted by JHIN

You seriously think the gov't has not already been involved? C'mon look at the economics - someone from both DL and NWA already has had the gov't around this merger pre-announcement otherwise we have a more serious situation on our hands when NWA or Delta re-enters bankruptcy or goes totally into liquidation consider the broader economic impacts and I think the gov't has been around to make sure this deal goes thru to avoid something more serious. IMHO

The government does not give a free pass to anti-trust violations (or at least it shouldn't be), nor will it sign off on a deal which casts thousands of people into the unemployment lines right before an election.

[TheMadBrewer]

Originally Posted by ifette

I'm just wondering if I should wait it out a bit to see if UA has any special offers to entice former NW/DL members, such as actually comping 1K for people who have 100K+ EQMs on NW/DL for the current year...

I was thinking the same thing -- especially if CO/UA goes thru -- that they would be smart to make a run at disaffected NW elites. Maybe CO/UA would be no better than DL/NW but I have much more favorable feeling towards CO and would jump ship if they so much as winked in my direction.

And even if they merge WP into SM at 1-to-1 --- with DL doing double miles/double EQM at the drop of a hat, we WPer's are at a serious disadvantage. If the award levels go up (or availability down), the SM people will be OK with all the doubles but we will face a serious (effective) devaluation. I was trying to be optimistic, but now I am ready to burn-baby-burn (miles) and start over with somebody else.

[jpc]

Originally Posted by wesley29

I'm surprised by the overwhelming negativity. There's no reason to assume everything people dislike about Delta will stay around. There's also no reason to assume that everything good about NW won't stay around. It is possible that they will combine strengths of each and that the end result may look pretty good. I, for one, think it's exciting. For example, Delta's transcon service and enchanced in-flight services combined with NW's great IT infrastructure. Also, remember that Richard Anderson will be running the new airline.

You have a point regarding the IT infrastructure, but that's about it. How is DL's transcon a benefit to anyone except a current hub-captive DL flyer? And enhanced in-flight services? I don't see a crappy IFE system as a benefit... I'd rather sleep or do work.

[TheMadBrewer]

Originally Posted by Emma65

this may seem like a very stupod question but here goes.

Why on earth would you spread your miles between two programs within the same alliance?????

50% there in each program to become Plat means you would be Plat in one of them by now if you had collected it all in one.

Am I the only person who see the stupidity in this?

If the Elite Extra Perks don't have any particular value to you, there is not a lot of benefit to flying more than 75K on NW (unless you are flying on high value fares). And since DL and NW didn't have reciprocal upgrades, getting Plat on both might be worth while if you were flying a lot on both.

[cj001f]

Originally Posted by bocastephen

The government does not give a free pass to anti-trust violations (or at least it shouldn't be), nor will it sign off on a deal which casts thousands of people into the unemployment lines right before an election.

Washington meddling with the airlines has gotten us into this mess, it's about time they stepped back. I for one welcome the change.

Originally Posted by twoner32

I was asking the same question (in my head)-I wonder why too?

I can't see the logic behind trying to earn status on two carriers in the same alliance, but I can see the logic behind accruing miles on two carriers in the same alliance. There are several unshared partner airlines between NW & DL, maintaining accounts with both allows you to easily top off your accounts.

[DHAST]

Originally Posted by Gargoyle

So- serious question. Please enlighten me... clear bullet points, how this merger ruins NW for you. Thanks,

Atlanta
Fewer F seats
Crappy FF redemption levels
Huge "fuel" surcharges on some award tickets (that will likely creep to more award tickets)
Elite dilution (DL is giving away MQM's for non-flying activity)
Indian call centers

I have my last award ticket on NW booked, and now I have less than one thousand miles in my account

Originally Posted by ernestb

Its the real deal. I got the email earlier and I was booking some award tickets and there was DL flights listed as options. NW has been my main carrier for the last 20 years. All because of the econ that we are in. Cost of fuel, and frankly there are not enough money to go around...I salute the NW staff at the Elite Office,

That doesn't mean anything. A couple of months ago, I was looking at booking some CVG-PVG award tickets on NW, and there were DL flights popping up. Also, I booked an award ticket a couple of weeks ago, and I fly DL back to CVG.

Originally Posted by bocastephen

Folks, ease up on the tears and tissue...nothing has happened yet. They announced a merger - there is no government approval, no shareholder approval and no employee approval yet.

Any one of those three could scuttle the deal - and rest assured an Obama White House would look very closely at potential job cuts or service cuts to rural areas, and my bet is on them either rejecting the deal, or placing such harsh restrictions on it, the deal will die on its own.

I am not calling 'done' on this deal until the ink is dry, and that won't be until early 2009 if at all, regardless of the PR chest beating that comes out of Eagan and Atlanta.

Uh, employees don't have to approve this deal. It will happen whether they like it or not. Shareholder approval? Methinks the shareholders have already cast their unofficial votes. Government? Me also thinks that the airlines have done some heavy lobbying. The number of carriers that have collapsed in recent times hasn't hurt the NW/DL case.

Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM

"Integrated SkyTeam frequent flyer programs and partner networks enable faster integration; existing Air France, KLM joint venture partnerships strengthened..."

Surely they are not intending on going the whole way and creating one big, integrated FF program ? Flying Blues for all?

If it is Flying Blues for all, will we all be singing (or would that be crying) the Flying Blues?

[BearX220]

Originally Posted by JHIN

Name one airline merger that has benefitted the flying public or the merged employees? None zero zippo let the tears and tissue and strategies begin now I say.

Gluing two troubled airlines together has never resulted in one strong one. Never, never, never.

Also, the whole point of this merger is to achieve a single, more efficient network. That means less customer choice, not more. The guy in GEG is going to lose his nonstops to MSP, anyone who lives within 1000 miles of ATL is going to see a lot of more of ATL, and the Cincinnati city council can start renting out most of CVG for flea markets or church services.

[SAT Lawyer]

The one silver lining to this deal is that our new SkyMiles accounts should allow us to redeem awards on SQ, albeit at levels higher than are available for those with Star Alliance program accounts.

[BearX220]

Originally Posted by DHAST

Uh, employees don't have to approve this deal. It will happen whether they like it or not.

Sure, but they can make ratification and implementation a living hell for everyone, management and customers included, and given the airline unionists' kamikaze mentality, don't think they won't.

NW pilots are already on the record against the merger. From the AP tonight:

"Northwest pilots concluded it was an arrangement to 'try to disadvantage the Northwest pilots economically and with respect to our seniority,' Northwest pilot chairman Dave Stevens wrote in a memo late Monday.

'No pilot group is going to put up with this. No amount of money can sustain a carrier which creates this level of discord,' he wrote.

So... how are they not going to put up with this?

[aSiAnRiCk]

Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer

The one silver lining to this deal is that our new SkyMiles accounts should allow us to redeem awards on SQ, albeit at levels higher than are available for those with Star Alliance program accounts.

Hehe .. I looked up DL's current partners about an hour after the news of the merger
I noticed that but then I was told by another FT'er how difficult it is for UA flyers to get seat with them .. so I don't see how it's going to be any different for "us".

[SAT Lawyer]

Originally Posted by aSiAnRiCk

I noticed that but then I was told by another FT'er how difficult it is for UA flyers to get seat with them .. so I don't see how it's going to be any different for "us".

I have no clue about how easy or how difficult it is to use SkyMiles to redeem on SQ, but you were misinformed about the difficulty of redeeming MileagePlus miles on SQ. I have found it extremely easy to redeem on SQ in the past using my UA miles, even more so than redeeming on UA's own flights. Now, if you were told that it is very difficult to find inventory on SQ's new premium cabin product on the 77W and impossible on the 380, that undoubtedly is correct. But the 744s and the rest of the fleet still offer redemption opportunities aplenty, at least for Star Alliance redemptions. And as good as the 380 and 77W product evidently is, the older Raffles product is hardly chopped liver.

[GVA]

Originally Posted by DHAST

If it is Flying Blues for all, will we all be singing (or would that be crying) the Flying Blues?

I'd guess the name would revert over to SkyMiles if you were to merge SM, WP & FB. At least SM has the advantage of pointing to SkyTeam.

I for one, am sad to see the NW brand go away.

I do think the new DL can improve if:

-They rely on NW's current IT
-Expand the current NW F product across the board.
-Take on the WP management team who have been excellent.

I'm also interested in seeing how AFKL will be involved in this whole thing. There's a real potential to offer a consistant product for frequent flyers on all airlines.

[scotcat]

from a European KLM view, and though not flying a lot in North America, the old Wings alliance between KLM and NW was just the best. All this rush into ´mergers´, first KLM into AF, now NW into DL is just the flavour of the month (ok year). Both KLM and NW served me just well. I have had, like all of us do, lots of points to criticise, but in the end of the day they brought me from A to B in at least as much comfort and safety overall as any other carrier, and they have, in particular NW, always treated me very well indeed.

I am sad about NW disappearing which was the first US airline I ever took so many years ago.

good flying to all of us in the future

[Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM]

Originally Posted by BearX220

Gluing two troubled airlines together has never resulted in one strong one. Never, never, never.

Also, the whole point of this merger is to achieve a single, more efficient network.

Perhaps. But I think that the whole idea planned from Skyteam, signaled clearly on the day DL & NW filed simultaneously for bankruptcy, was to glue two troubled airlines (NW & DL) together with one strong airline (AFKL). That could result not only in a one big strong virtual airline, but could also lead the next stage of industry development.

[Carolinian]

CHAOS? Strikes? For once, I may actually root for the unions over the boardroom basturds!

Originally Posted by BearX220

Sure, but they can make ratification and implementation a living hell for everyone, management and customers included, and given the airline unionists' kamikaze mentality, don't think they won't.

NW pilots are already on the record against the merger. From the AP tonight:

"Northwest pilots concluded it was an arrangement to 'try to disadvantage the Northwest pilots economically and with respect to our seniority,' Northwest pilot chairman Dave Stevens wrote in a memo late Monday.

'No pilot group is going to put up with this. No amount of money can sustain a carrier which creates this level of discord,' he wrote.

So... how are they not going to put up with this?